The simple one word answer is “Yes”, I was writing about this a few days ago and clarified that the Quran does indeed promote a flat-earth view. There are many verses such as the following …
15:19 And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.
20:53 He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky.” With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.
43:10 (Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way);
50:7 And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)
The above is only a sample, there are lots more similar references.
Does any of this actually matter?
Yes, it truly does, when you believe that the quran is perfect and every word is promoted by a god for you to obey, then you quickly find that you are using it to justify some truly abhorrent stuff such as …
- Intolerance of all other beliefs and non-belief
- Homophobia
- Misogyny
- Murder
- Stoning
- etc…
What is important about the flat-earth statements within the quran is that here we have hard irrefutable proof that this book is not authored by a god and contains stuff that is factually wrong. If it is wrong about the earth being flat then it is clearly crazy to use it to justify all the violence and intolerance.
So what are the counter arguments presented by Islamic Apologists when you point out a flat earth?
It is not really saying the earth is flat?
This is no straw-man, it is an actual quote … (forgive his spelling)
If i Say About 1 Mile Square Area refered “Flat” in My discusion E.g My Best Friend ask me TO have One acre of Area, I Say him loud, ” that , my dear Friend, whole flat Terotery is yours , Dont think in acres, they are Miles” so David Here word Flat Dosnt Mean Whole earth is Flat,as concerned with wiki, so i totaly agree with him, If Tow people listening me and my friend nearby suposed my refred word 4 whole earth, thy may thier own misconception or way of inovation to undrstand. If one person debate and say 4 mile squir is refred flat, and one say whole earth is flat, refring my discusion to My friend, and about thier whole Quaral
The rebuttal to my observation regarding the quran describing the earth as flat is essentially to argue that the references in the quran are relative and localized. He illustrates this by pointing out that if you take an area of say 1 sq mile, it is flat.
The rather obvious response to that is to point out that the flatness described by the quran is applied to the entire earth and not just a local area.
For example in 20:53 we read …
الذي جعل لكم الارض مهدا وسلك لكم فيها سبلا وانزل من السماء ماء فاخرجنا به ازواجا من نبات شتى
He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky.” With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.
And just to clarify that for you مَهْدًا = mahdan = (Noun) cradle or bed, (verb) flatten, smoothen, smooth, level, cement, grade, ram, plane, roll, flat, level off … is not applied here to a local area, but to the entire earth.
Clearly for this flatness there is no localised qualifier.
The Quran mentions the actual shape of the Earth as round, not flat
“He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)….” The Holy Qur’an, Chapter 20, Verse 53
Does carpet mean ‘flat’ ? Carpet takes the shape of the surface below. If the carpet is put on a spherical surface then it takes the shape of the sphere, it doesn’t stay flat, does it.
Brother david there was no gramer when quran was written and all gramers are drived from quran. No where in the Quran is it mentioned the Earth is flat. I just queted the example. Actually the Quran specifically mentions the Earth is egg shaped.The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:
“And we have made the earth egg shaped“. The Holy Qur’an, Chapter 79, Verse 30.
Taking One Verse as consequence and leaving other Is also an amazing degree of dishonesty.
Humm, the cognitive dissonance is strong in this one.
So has anybody seen a spherically shaped area that has had a carpet rolled out on it … ever?
He then quotes a verse that he claims declares the earth is shaped like an egg, so lets take a really close look at that. The claim here is that 79:30 reads “And we have made the earth egg shaped”, but does it?
Nope, it does not, his claimed translation is the true dishonesty here, the quran says no such thing.
Arabic: والارض بعد ذلك دحاها
Transliteration: Waal-arda baAAda thalika dahaha
Literal: And the earth/Planet Earth after that He blew and stretched/spread it.
What is going on here is that a couple of translations have attempted to translate the word dahaha to mean made egg-shaped or like an ‘ostrich egg’, but that is wrong. The attempt to justify this is to claim that the root word for dahaha is duhiya which means ostrich egg, but even that is not correct either.
In Arabic, each word must be derived from its root. The root usually consists of three letters that can be manipulated, by adding vowels, prefixes and suffixes in order to produce different words with different meanings. For example, “ka-ta-ba” (to write) is the root for many words such as kitab (book), maktaba (library), katib (author), maktoob (written), kitabat (writings), etc…
Let’s now take the word mentioned to mean egg of an ostrich, “Duhiya”. This word is not a root. It is a noun and is derived from “da-ha-wa”, the same root that the verb “dahaha” comes from. Furthermore, Duhiya does not even mean the egg of an ostrich.
To daha the earth means to spread it out, there is no egg shape here at all, and that is why most good translations correctly render it as streatched or spread.
We are right back to a flat earth once again.
Summary
The Quran does indeed assert that the earth is flat, and this is quite obviously wrong. The claim that the Quran is perfect and never wrong does not withstand any fact-based criticism. This of course is just one example, there are many other similar factual inaccuracies … humans are not made of clay, the moon never split in two, jinns are not real, the sun does not set in a muddy pool when it sets, and thunder is not an angel.
The real issue here is not that a text from the seventh century contains some archaic and factually wrong information, that is exactly what we would expect. Instead, the issue is that this exact same text which is full of mistakes, is claimed to be perfect and must be obeyed. The result of such obedience is homophobia, violence, and intolerance, and that is why the assertion of perfection needs to be challenged, because while this myth of divine unchallengeable scribblings prevails, real harm results.
“The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment.”
—Sheik Abdul-Aziz Ibn Baaz, supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia, 1993
Then why does out early scholars disagree? The Quran doesn’t say the Earth is flat, research more brother.
And I don’t say this to please anyone, Allah knows my intentions, if it said the Earth is flat, who knows perhaps we do live in a Matrix world…
No, I just don’t see where it says it’s flat explicitly (like some other religious texts do say btw), in the flat earth sense, not in the “soft” sense of not being filled up with abrupt terrain…
Look at this:
https://www.al-islam.org/ask/does-the-quran-say-anything-to-suggest-that-the-earth-is-flat-or-otherwise
You also can watch, about the early scholars also having this opinion, based on the Quran…
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/118698/consensus-that-the-earth-is-round
What guide do you use then, for morality and purpose?
68:36
مَا لَكُمْ كَيْفَ تَحْكُمُونَ ٣٦
What is the matter with you? How do you judge?
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, the Clear Quran
And how can it be an excellent work? When early scholars, using the Quran and sunnah knew the Earth was not flat?
These people knew more, that’s the answer, and the scripture doesn’t say the Earth is flat in the sense flat Eathers say it is.
Also, that belief isn’t even based on scripture, Atheists can also fall into believing that, because if you don’t reason too much that is the impression you get, it’s not like humanity knew the Earth is like an Ostrich Egg (Ironically, Dahaha, the same verse Dave took to mean flat means Spherical xD, and proves Islam in this aspect haha) in shape, and then bad bad religion came to say it’s flat xD.
What a joke!!! Dave cherry picks (even if it’s political authority, that doesn’t mean he’s the best religious expert necessarily) a statement of one, but ignores EARLY scholars saying the Earth is not flat xD
May the creator guide you honestly, you follow a man-made morality, and judge with that trash objective morality. Wow, I do give it credit for trying to be logical, but again even if Islam was fake, it’s funny how you think morals matter, if we were all atheists, why follow the state law at all? If we can, we should be egoists…
As an atheist, why NOT be homophobic (like actually), or whatnot…
Islam teaches us to hate the sin, not the sinner, but also to establish justice and not to promote sin.
So, we tolerate what is tolerable, and we don’t tolerate what is not tolerable, according to our morals.
EXACTLY what secularized countries do… They just tolerate different things and don’t tolerate others…
China is a secular country, yet they don’t tolerate some religious freedoms or freedoms of citizens in general!!
Meanwhile, you have religious communities, little, and they live peacefully with others.
It’s not about religion only, it’s about character in general, even there, if you follow the religion in truth you develop compassion.
Now the internet has made conflicts reach every home (prophecy also) and the plates are communicating and the families break down (prophecy also, I must eventually get the narration… but it’s obvious this religion is the truth, and everything Dave said, again, doesn’t match the interpretation of a LOT of Muslim scholars… USING the scripture to understand the Earth is not flat)
Believe whatever you want, if God isn’t the necessary existence, then the universe is, but that implies issues also…
Science will never disprove God, it didn’t disprove Islam, but even if it could, atheism is based in assumptions, not evidence…
And most importantly, physical evidence can’t prove you aren’t in a Matrix world to begin with… what proof than would be reliable? If it was all an illusion…
I don’t want to end this in a conflictive manner tho, I do appreciate you realize the scripture is useful to reflect, but I recommend you watch more deep scholars, I recommend you Professor Ali Ataie, the brother Zakir Naik is destined to the masses of people, he does know wide, but perhaps not in the depth of some other scholars…
It seems you are advanced, so Ali Ataie will do better, he also studied other religions in depth, and has both intellectual and hard expositions, but also talks about good character, and whatnot… very beautiful.
(Also understand the bigger picture, some of what you see as bad, perhaps in a wide scale would be good, and what you see as good, has caused more harm that you don’t see (like kids involved in drugs or violence, because their parents committed adultery and then the father fleed… it is preferred to go against fornication and punish that, than having kids shoot people… my opinion)) (Also there are differences of opinion among scholars, so it’s not like “Islam says this”, in some aspects it’s clear, the basics, but some specifics can be adapted to the situations)
Peace be with you.
Speaking Arabic does mean you are familiar with the lingo and interpretation of the Quran.
Excellent work Dave. Your site balances out the very aggressive position that some religious people/ scholars take – such as Naik. I just cannot comprehend how someone can use the Quran or the Torah/ Old testament as a guide in the 21st century, claiming that this is how you should lead your life. From stoning to death, to slaughtering thousands of animals to a god, to punishing your slave or beating your wife, times have changed and the human species have moved on from the dark ages. The holy books are wonderful for reflection, for helping you find “your inner truth” – if thats your cup of tea and for those that wish to seek further such as inner christianity, kabbalah and sufism – great, but do not take these literally or use them as guides for life in this day and age – or even worst put them up against science. Thanks again for your contributions.
https://youtu.be/eBDt96OnoVQ
But the Earth is truly flat, if you believe otherwise then you do not believe in the Quran, you either believe “Science” or the Quran. research flat earth
And here comes a sanghi ass, fukcing primitive Stone Age chimpanzee!
The article is written by a person who has no knowledge of Arabic. The allegation made by the author that the quran says that the world is flat are baseless. In the quran, different words are used for the land and the world.
The word Arz used in the quran means land in which we stand. This land is spread out like a carpet on the earth, which seems to be round due to the reflection of light through the oceans. No where in the quran does it says that the world is flat.
Where can I look more into this please?
Contemplating at your article and reading the comments, I’m convinced that Islam does not believe that earth is flat in its totality. I find that Qur’anic revelations are for the benefit and upliftment of society and individual. I believe that while Qur’anic revelations were passed, it was in direct relation to what Prophet Muhammad was going through in his period of prophecy. The Holy Qur’an has maintained this style of speech in the entire Qur’an to bring it’s another promise to full circle from the Chapter 2 Verse 23 which is “And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single chapter like it, and call your witnesses besides God if you are truthful.” And to make that verse, you had to follow Qur’an’s way of writing. And honestly, with facts backed by evidences unseen to the common eye, it was and it is still a challenge for the humanity to produce a work like this. Getting back to the point, I understand that Qur’an never had the intention to prove the shape of the earth and neither earth being flat or round was the concern as people at the time of Prophet Muhammad was going through the phase of illiteracy. And all they were concerned about how can they be better humans to serve the mankind and finally redeem themselves in heaven. That is the reason why even though Prophet Muhammad knew a lot of future events, he didn’t discuss them much as it Islam’s basic belief is that it’s useless to make the land a beautiful place to stay as you have to die someday and the best you could do is live in their hearts. So even at this point today, I don’t care if earth is round or flat as long as I’m not falling out of it. But everything is in place and the world is running perfectly fine (except the Australian Fires). Nobody is complaining about their country being pushed to the edge of earth. I just hope that you try to take religion as a tool to develop your spirituality and stop finding scientific facts in every bit of Qur’an (although Qur’an has proven it several times). This is Qur’an, not your Geology Journal. Peace
Bible never mentions a flat earth where did you get that from? Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. Earth floats in space. Job 26:77 He stretches out the north over the void
and hangs the earth on nothing. Job 26:10 He has inscribed a circle on the face of the waters. The Scripture makes it quite clear that the Earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22) at the boundary between light and darkness. The idiom ‘four corners’ is an English translation of the Hebrew word kanaph which is extremities. It can be translated in a number of ways, all of which mean ‘away from the centre’ (Jerusalem).
Everything you quote uses the word circle. That’s 2D, a flat earth.
You do not know the language, & you have zero idea what you’re talking about.
Dave! Its not specific to concern Arabic language in our own wanted meaning and shape it according to our own concern ! Reality is that until now no one can prove it that the earth is flat or round ? There is more need to search and use advanced technology in true sense not only more creating mysteries in the minds ! If satellite are going on so far that can calculate the curvature of the earth and can proof with true pics , videos or any other source that can never be falsified ! last ! please don’t try to make your own explaining
words any religion Holy Book !
// Dave! Its not specific to concern Arabic language in our own wanted meaning and shape it according to our own concern ! //
I agree, facts are facts.
// Reality is that until now no one can prove it that the earth is flat or round ? //
Nope, that’s not factual. It has been a well established fact since the 3rd century BC, when Hellenistic astronomy established the spherical shape of the Earth as a physical given and calculated Earth’s circumference.
Meanwhile the cosmology in the Quran, and Bible is flat earth cosmology. It is like that because that was the cosmology that prevailed within the cultures that wrote those texts. To claim otherwise is to “make your own explaining“
The Bible also supports FE and it was inspired by God.
Fuck terrorist Allah and kuran
Watch Christian prince he was a scholar and Arabic is his first language.
Dave, I understand the emotional need some atheists have to think themselves more “rational” or “scientific” than their religious counterparts, but I think they hurt their cause when they engage in these silly polemics.
For example, suppose a Muslim told an atheist that America stretches, or spreads, from sea to shining sea and that the world is his oyster. And suppose that the atheist accused the Muslim of believing in stuff that’s “factually wrong”. “America isn’t flat,” thunders the atheist, “it’s full of mountains like Mount Everest and canyons like the Grand Canyon”! “Moreover,” says the atheist, “the world isn’t an oyster, everyone knows it’s the third planet from the sun”! Now, who’s the dummy in this scenario, the Muslim or the atheist? Is it the Muslim who has suspect scientific comprehension, or is it the atheist who has suspect English comprehension? When did “stretch” and “spread” become synonymous with “flatten” in the atheist lexicon? Does “critical thinking” or “skepticism” require atheists to take figurative language literally? I find myself asking these types of questions every time I encounter these amusing scientific-errors-in-the-Quran polemics.
Your blog post seems to be based almost entirely on an article on the polemical website Wikiislam, which makes numerous misleading claims. The article even contains a 1553 AD painting that it says depicts “a traditional Islamic projection of the world as a flat disk surrounded by the sundering seas which are restrained by the encircling mountains of Qaf”. The painting was made some 500 years after the Muslim scientist Al-Biruni measured the circumference of our ROUND earth in 1037 AD, and some 600 years after the Muslim astronomer Abu al-Wafa’ Buzjani used SPHERICAL trigonometry to calculate the direction of prayer from any point on our ROUND earth! It was painted around the same time a famous painting was made (between 1574 and 1595 AD) of the Muslim astronomer, Taqi ad-Din Muhammad ibn Ma’ruf, studying a ROUND earth.
Your blog post repeats some of the dubious claims from the Wikiislam article. For example, you wrote “And just to clarify that for you مَهْدًا = mahdan = (Noun) cradle or bed, (verb) flatten, smoothen, smooth, level, cement, grade, ram, plane, roll, flat, level off. . .” That’s incorrect. The word mahdan in 20:53 means cradle or abode-habitat. Some translators translate it as the former, some translate it as the latter, but none translate it as flat. It is in the sense of a cradle that it’s used in verse 19:29. And it’s in the sense of an abode-habitat that it’s used in 3:12, where hell is described as a “miserable abode/wabi’sa al-mihad”.
You wrote, “So has anybody seen a spherically shaped area that has had a carpet rolled out on it … ever?” I don’t think it matters because verses 15:19, 20:53, 43:10, and 50:7, don’t mention carpets. Whatever English translation you’re using does, but the Arabic doesn’t.
You wrote, “The attempt to justify this is to claim that the root word for dahaha is duhiya which means ostrich egg, but even that is not correct either.” That’s incorrect. I’ve never seen anyone claim that “duhiya” is the root word for “dahaha”. I have seen some claim that both duhiya and dahaha come from the dal-ha-waw root. And they’re right, dahyah does men egg. As you mentioned, Arabic words are derived from roots. For example, verse 39:5 says “He rolls the night over the day and the day over the night/yukawiru l-layla ala n-nar wa yukawiru n-nar ala l-layl”. The word yukawiru comes from the same root as the word kurah, which means ball, sphere, or orb. The dal-ha-waw root has 2 primary meanings: to spread-expand-extend and to be round. Some translators translate dahaha in verse 79:30 in the latter sense, some translate it in the former sense, none translate it as flat. In the past, the Arabic word for egg was dahyah and the word for nest was udhiyyah or madhan (see Lane’s “Arabic-English Lexicon,” pg. 857). This is an old usage, however. Only some North African dialects have retained this usage in the modern period (see “The Arabic Dialect of the Jews in Tripoli (Libya): Grammar, Text and Glossary,” pg. 212, and “A Dictionary of Egyptian Arabic,” pg. 280).
If you want to explore the relationship between Islam and science, I’d recommend reading a good book like “Islam’s Quantum Question” by the Muslim astrophysicist Nidhal Guessoum, instead of reading a polemical website like Wikiislam.
I appreciate the concern Michael.
I should perhaps point out a couple of rather important points.
– The posting is not a claim that all of Islam, or for that matter, all Muslims actually embrace flat earth cosmology as “Truth”. I would in fact be astonished if any variation of Islam today seriously advocated that stance.
Any who adopt a literal reading of the text, or perhaps simply promote the idea that the text of wholly perfect, divine, and beyond criticism, tend to end up adopting positions that gravitate towards extremism. To provoke a bit of thought I put up a posting that contains the observation that a literal reading will also yield things that are simply not factual (such as flat earth cosmology, moon splitting in two, humans made out of potters clay, etc…). I picked flat earth.
This of course is not unique to Islam. If you adopt a literal reading of the bible then you also find yourself with a cosmology that reflects the time it was written in, (Hint: no planet earth is not literally 6,000 years old).
What I have also learned since I posted the article six years ago is that criticism of such texts changes nothing. Those deeply invested in the text at an emotional level are in effect immune to any criticism of the text. The responses tend to flow along the lines of these … not been correctly understood, you used the wrong translation, it is just a metaphor, etc…
These days, if I’m going to engage in a discussion regarding beliefs, I’d tend to be far more interested in understand what people actually believe, and why they believe it.
The quran is written in old english and very hard to decipher also when it says laid out like a carpet it is a simile. I hope allah swt will show you the right path
// Old English //
I think you mean an older form of Arabic.
There are a couple of points here.
– At the time and place it was written a flat earth cosmology prevailed, and so the text tends to echo that
– How people read it varies a great deal. For some it is to be interpreted by scholars, but for others it is to be read literally
– No one single interpretation prevails, but the one to truly argue against are those that interpret it as a text to be read literally because that also results in extremism .. a stance that the vast majority reject.
Moving on.
// I hope allah swt will show you the right path //
Again if I am to interpret this, you are simply wishing me well and hope that I come to terms with the thought that the vast majority of those that believe are decent honourable people … is that correct?
If it is, then be assured that it is a thought that I do hold.
Read surah num 22 ayat num 46
For the curious, that ref is basically the religious way of saying “You are an idiot”.
And after that He spread the earth. (79:30) ahahaha theres no mention of ostrich egg wtf they’re fucking liars
Dear Dave,
Understand Quran is too difficult because its not written in English.
Also we know that the same word has different meaning to project based on the situation or context.
DONOT FORGET that Quran has been written in Arabic and and this becomes more tough when its in Arabic.
Many Arabic researcher still are working to analyze the complete Quran.
Here word the word “Carpet” has a different sense. It means “Land as a base”.
Kindly donot mislead with irrelevant pics and with cripple knowledge.
My suggestion is to Master Arabic and try understanding it then come to a conclusion.
A small glimpse :
Recently we came to know that there are many galaxies like ours. However this was mentioned in Quran long back.
May GOD give you the necessary patience & knowledge to understand the Holy Quran.
Hi Jennifer,
I speak Arabic and have a good knowledge of the language, I can confirm that Dave’s interpretation is very accurate. A lot of modern religious scholars and believers try to twist Arabic language in order to avoid the reality that Quran says that earth is flat. BTW, a lot of Quran verses mention that Sun moves and not a single one mentions that earth moves. Now some believers would say that Sun moves, which is true in a way, however, earth relatively moves much more but its movement never mentioned in Quran.
Firstly:
The scholars are unanimously agreed that the earth is round, but to human eyes it appears to be flat, because it is very big and its roundness or curvature cannot be seen at close distances. So the one who stands and looks sees it as flat, but when viewed as a whole, in reality it is round.
Ibn Hazm (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
The proofs of the Qur’an and Sunnah indicate that it is round. End quote.
See also the answers to questions no. 201530 and 118698
Secondly:
The verse (interpretation of the meaning) “And Allah has made for you the earth wide spread (an expanse)” [Nooh 71:19] indicates that it is spread out and shaped so that people can feel settled in it and be able to live and prosper in it. Ibn Katheer said:
That is, He spread it out, prepared it, made it stable and made it firm by means of the mountains.
Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 8/247
Similarly, the verse (interpretation of the meaning) “Have We not made the earth as a bed” [an-Naba’ 78:6] means that it is spread out and prepared for you and for your benefit, so that you can cultivate it, build dwellings in it and travel through it.
Ibn Katheer said:
That is, it is prepared for people in such a way that they can live in it, and it is firm, stable and steady.
Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 8/307
And the verse (interpretation of the meaning) “And the earth We spread out, and placed therein firm mountains, and caused to grow therein all kinds of things in due proportion” [al-Hijr 15:19] means We spread it out and placed firm mountains therein. This is like the verse in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And it is He Who spread out the earth, and placed therein firm mountains and rivers” [ar-Ra‘d 13:3].
There is no contradiction between saying that it is round and saying that it was spread out, because in fact in its totality it is round, but to the one who stands on it and looks at it, it appears flat, as it appears to everyone.
Ar-Raazi (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
If it is said: Do the words “And the earth We spread out” indicate that it is flat?
We would respond: Yes, because the earth, even though it is round, is an enormous sphere, and each little part of this enormous sphere, when it is looked at, appears to be flat. As that is the case, this will dispel what they mentioned of confusion. The evidence for that is the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “And the mountains as pegs” [an-Naba’ 78:7]. He called them awtaad (pegs) even though these mountains may have large flat surfaces. And the same is true in this case.
End quote from Tafseer ar-Raazi, 19/131
Shaykh ash-Shanqeeti (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
If the scholars of Islam affirm that the earth is round, then what would they say about the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Do they not look at the camels, how they are created?
And at the heaven, how it is raised?
And at the mountains, how they are rooted and fixed firm?
And at the earth, how it is spread out?”
[al-Ghaashiyah 88:17-20].
Their response will be the same as their response concerning the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water” [al-Kahf 18:86] – that is, as it appears to be in the eye of the beholder, because the sun sets on one country, but remains up in the sky for another, until it rises from the east on the following morning. So the earth looks flat in every region or part of it, because of its immense size.
This does not contradict its real shape, because we may see a very high mountain, but if we climb it and reach its summit we may find a flat surface there, and find an entire nation living there, and some of the people there may not know anything about the rest of the world, and so on. End quote.
Adwa’ al-Bayaan, 8/428
Shaykh Rafee‘ ad-Deen ibn Waliyullah ad-Dahlawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said in his book at-Takmeel:
Some may understand words such as “made the earth as a bed” [an-Naba’ 78:6], “He spread the earth” [an-Naazi‘aat 79:30] and “…how it is spread out…” [al-Ghaashiyah 88: 20] as meaning that it is flat, whereas the scholars affirm that it is round on the basis of sound evidence, so it is thought that there is a conflict. That may be refuted by the fact that the visible part of it (for a person standing on it) appears flat, because the larger a circle is, the more spread out it is, so we may say that it is flat on the basis of that part of it that is visible to us, and it is round in its totality, on the basis of rational thinking.
Quoted from him by Siddeeq Hasan Khan in his tafseer, Fath al-Bayaan, 15/208
Lines mentioned here (15:19, 20:53, 43:10, 50:7), It doesn’t seems describing the Shape. Like someone says “Our Playground is like ocean, its lawn grasses like foam. In this particular example, it is not discussing the shape of the playground at all. It seems to me describing something big and comfortable rather than shape.
So shallow. When the quran speaks about earth moon planets sun it doesnt waste time to talk about its shape. The doesnt talk about the earth as a planet but the word Al-Ard is about the ground and land. Nobody in the islamic world since muhammad until today has had any problem understanding the verse. We dont believe the eart is flat either because the muslims are very wise to observe the shape of sun and moon. The quran speaks about greater subjects than what you are able to perceive.
The problem is with your understanding. Is the piece of land you make your home is flat or curved? If you still dont understand that god has made the land flat then there is something wrong with you.
Do you not know that when you use ‘like’ in a sentence, it becomes a simile? Quranic verses can be direct or indirect, so a phrase like ‘earth like a carpet’ is figurative. A direct verse would be ‘earth is egg-shaped’ and this is true due to the centrifugal force, hence the earth is not exactly spherical in nature. The earth is not flat and the Quran has proven it.
this is not correct, if you are reading this please research further and dont rely on only one source.
https://youtu.be/jtqGcZH1E2M
you mentioned a verse where it says that the earth is not flat, and still come to the conclusion that the quran says that the earth is flat? can you not hold to your own arguments and references you use in your article? do you really need to play with words and manipulate things how they fit you most. you explained it very well, the surface of the earth is like a carpet, it takes it form from what under, in mountains it’s different, in fields different. and yet you say the quran says the earth is flat!! do you think we eat grass and that we are stupid and don’t think about what we read?
Dude, Quran never said it is flat. All the verses you quoted means it is huge, vast and an expanse. Not flat. Please finish your Quran reading and you will find “[Quran 39.5] [Allah] Created the heavens and the Earth in truth. He overlaps [Yukawer in Arabic يُكَوِّرُ] the night over the day and overlaps [Yukawer يُكَوِّرُ] the day over the night, and enslaved the sun and the moon. ALL MOVE (Kullon Yajree كل يجري) to a prerecorded destiny. Is He not the Exalted, the Forgiver? ”
The Arabic word “Kura” means ball; its verb “Yukawer يُكَوِّرُ” means to make into a ball. The Quran says that the overlapping of the night and the day makes a ball (sphere).
Read the Quran properly and not just take some verses and then make that stupid comment.
Hey! Really like your thinking here as to “a book written a while ago and irrelevant for some scientific matters”.
However, I would argue you left out – or did not research very thoroughly – what other non flatist Muslims say about this matter and tend to paint everyone with the same brush – which is always problematic if the aim of your article- very light on references and fact checking or knowledge of the book you criticize – is to (I hope) convince people to check what science has to say.
And so, with just a few min on research, guess what you can find immediately after your page on google?
Yes! An actual article from Islam dot org, proving you wrong in saying that the Qur’an described the earth as absolutely flat – with no other possibilities. This article presents plenty if evidence if the contrary with numerous roud earth references.
Here is the link – please have the intellectual honesty to update your article and dig a little deeper next time :) enjoy !
https://www.al-islam.org/philosophy-islamic-laws-nasir-makarim-shirazi-jafar-subhani/question-36-earth-being-spherical-and
Your critical thingking!! Qur’an has to be read with Hadith (the time and circumstances or context,to whom it’s was said, been recorded by who) to whom such verse been revealed) !! Do not generalize the subject!! You have no idea about Classical Arabic language! This statement says your one of them !! The hate mongers !! Do not spread false info !!
Hahahahaha brother still science is not able to proof yet we are a moving planet bible says same so you have any proof of sperical earth?? Let’s start with this
Its really funny, may God was ignorant of things he built. Flat earth, dome shaped sky, sun rotates, around earth, lack of info on other galaxies, etc are funny. All religious manuscripts were prepared by men who liven then, with his knowledge, that’s the reason why now twisting, rolling and turning is required to prove their coexistence with facts proved by science.
If God given these details, he should be knowing the moon walk by men in 20th Centaury, Space ships launched by men, Internet use by men, presence of 1000s of Galaxies in space existence of earth like planets around distant stars etc. Might be he also got surprised to see the ultra intelligent man and his progress.
Check your facts you’re saying the book of the holy Quran is wrong but is NASA a “God” that you believe in every picture they reveal to you? No! They’re humans like us we all know they’re a billionaire company they could photoshop anything even if you think the Quran is wrong for some reason I’m pretty sure all the scientific facts were stated in the Quran before any human discovered them. I can’t believe how dumb this article is. Honestly, sorry but I had to get that out.
The Earth always been flat it’s written in the Torah and the Quran and other scriptures
Other Scriptures like….???
The Quran is NOT a Science teaching Book! It is a Book of Guidance on:
Human to human relations to live peacefully together while alive.
Human to God relationship to earn Paradise in the next Life.
The Quran also mentions other things in relation to the above main themes. So it talks about historical & future events; past nations; Nature; Revelation etc.
So when it mentions Nature, it does talk about scientific concepts in simple language that ordinary people (including illiterate nomads) could understand.
What is important to note is that, in its explanations of Nature, the Quran never goes against the facts. Many of those facts were not known 1400 years ago.
So this topic about a Flat Earth has NEVER been in the islamic discourse, except to refute it.
All the Islamic Scientists of the Golden Age assumed all heavenly bodies to be spherical & they invented Spherical Trignometry (as well as other tools) for their calculations.
They all understood what the Quran & The Prophet (saw) had said about the Earth, Moon Sun etc. in their original language & they were all known to be spherical objects.
Just have a read of this article to see that a number of Christians (e.g. St Augustine) believed in a Flat Earth with supports for the Sky! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth
It also says: “The Abbasid Caliphate saw a great flowering of astronomy and mathematics in the 9th century AD.
Muslim scholars of the past believed in a spherical Earth.
The Quran mentions that the Earth (al-arḍ) was “spread out”.[129] To this 12th-century commentary, the Tafsir al-Kabir (al-Razi) by Fakhr al-din al-Razi, states “If it is said: Do the words ‘And the Earth We spread out’ indicate that it is flat? We would respond: Yes, because the Earth, even though it is round, is an enormous sphere, and each little part of this enormous sphere, when it is looked at, appears to be flat. As that is the case, this will dispel what they mentioned of confusion. The evidence for that is the verse in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘And the mountains as pegs’ [an-Naba’ 78:7]. He called them awtaad (pegs) even though these mountains may have large flat surfaces. And the same is true in this case.”[130]
The 11th-century scholar Ibn Hazm stated, “Evidence shows that the Earth is a sphere but public people say the opposite.”
He added, “NONE OF THOSE who deserve being Imams for MUSLIMS HAS DENIED THAT EARTH IS ROUND. And we have not received anything indicates a denial, not even a single word.”[131]
Scholar Ibn Taymiyyah stated that the Earth is spherical and not flat. He stated that the Arabic word falak (Arabic: فَلَكٍ) refers to that which is round. Ibn Abbas said it is like that of a spinning wheel.[132] The word is used in Quran 21:33 and Quran 36:40. The scholar Al-Suyuti stated that the belief in a flat Earth is a deviation.[132]
In those days, everybody believed that the Sky or Heavens were help up by Pillars (Job 26:11) or Walls etc ( https://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/gre13.htm)
but the Quran went against such ideas (31:10 & 13:2).
So if all the ‘experts’ of that time (Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans etc) agreed on this, why did the Quran say the opposite?
Opposing the status quo on anything usually results in getting ridiculed & called a Liar /stupid/mad/posessed etc!
Today, the vast majority of Flat Earthers are Westerners, who have been brainwashed by internet fake news SIMILAR TO WHAT THIS SITE PROMOTES ABOUT ISLAM!!
Interesting articles:
Copernicus and Ibn Al-Shatir: does the Copernican revolution have Islamic roots.This article shows that Copernicus relied on Islamic Sources for his theory.
http://adsbit.harvard.edu/full/seri/HisSc/0045//0000065.000.html
BBC documentary – how Copernicus copied Islamic Scholars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMUc3fnL4zQ
Skeptical Science is not some linguist expert. But still there is no disputing that the surface of the earth does appear flat. But the Bible is itself known to mention that the Earth is round. It is known that Arabs and Muhammad did indeed read Bible, the stoning etc comes from it. The claim of Muslims not knowing earth is round is based on poor research which is best left to real religious scholars.
Muhammad is illiterate.
You can do and think what you like, but there is nothing from other scriptures that is as close to the perfection of the Quran, as Muslim we only see its perfection, and the unbeliever they can say what they want and they cannot even deny the corruption and unworthy of truth from their own scriptures.
We should disregard our social and academic conditioning, to follow our God given senses. Doing so will allow you to question everything. The Quran is correct, the earth is Flat and immovable. Sun moon and stars rotate above and around us like the hands of a clock that’s been taken off the wall and placed on a flat surface. The sun never goes down it simply moves away from our site leaving the illusion that it is setting. One reason for this is because the sun and moon is not as big or as far away as we’re taught. Every single peace of so called evidence to suggest or prove the earth is round can be easily debunked. Clear your mind first,then do your own unbiased research. Peace
No matter how truth the Quran is you will refute because nobody wanna know the truth
People like you loves to believe in conjectures or cartoon like Marvel and DC comics but the truth no wanna know.
Anyway, The AlMighty God is not going to cry if all mankind in this sickening world refuse to acknowledge HIM! It is not a problem for HIM, Worst come to worst, HE will destroy this sickening world with sickening people like you and create new beings better than you/us and all of them will kneel and prostrate to HIM!
Well I think the carpet can be moved and it covers the thing which is under . For our earth our ground is moveable ( tectonic plates) and it also covers the lava which are at the center of the earth.
So what do u think? Pls reply
This is just straight up propaganda that it’s sad. Muslims don’t believe in Misogyny, or Murder. It is said that if you kill a person, it’s equavalent to killing all of mankind and it’s a very punishable sin. One of the most worst sins you could commit. Don’t lie to make whatever your religion seem better. Oh and we also believe the teachings of Christianity and Judaism are true as well. The Bible, Torah, and Quran are all considered to be the holy books.
I’m a Muslim. I do’t believe the Earth is flat. Most Muslims believe the Earth is round. Get your facts right.
It’s been a consensus of the Islamic scholars that the earth is round but the land was stretched out flat so we can inhabit it comfortably.
Consensus that the Earth is round
118698
Question
Is there consensus that the Earth is round? If there is, then what is the evidence from the Qur’an or Sunnah that the Earth is round or egg shaped?
Answer
Praise be to Allah.
More than one of the scholars have narrated that there is consensus that the Earth is round. For example:
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) narrated that from Abu’l-Husayn ibn al-Munaadi (may Allah have mercy on him), when he said:
Imam Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al-Munaadi narrated from the prominent scholars who are well known for knowledge of reports and major works in religious sciences, from the second level of Ahmad’s companions, that there was no difference of opinion among the scholars that the sky is like a ball.
He said: Similarly they were unanimously agreed that the Earth, with all that is contains of land and sea is like a ball. He said: That is indicated by the fact that the sun, moon and stars do not rise and set over those who are in different parts of the earth at the same time; rather that occurs in the east before it occurs in the west.
Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (25/195)
The heavens are round, according to the Muslim scholars. More than one of the scholars and Muslim leaders narrated that the Muslims are unanimously agreed on that, such as Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al-Munaadi, one of the leading figures among the second level of the companions of Imam Ahmad, who wrote approximately four hundred books. Consensus on this point was also narrated by Imam Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm and Abu’l-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi. The scholars narrated that with well-known chains of narration (isnaads) from the Sahaabah and Taabi‘een, and they quoted that from the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger. They discussed that in detail with orally-transmitted evidence. There is also mathematical evidence to that effect, and I do not know of anyone among the well-known Muslim scholars who denied that, apart from a few of those who engaged in arguments who, when they debated with the astrologers denied it for the sake of argument and said: It may be square or hexagonal and so on. They did not deny that it could be round, but they said that the opposite of that was possible. I do not know of anyone who said that it is not round – with any certainty – apart from some ignorant people to whom no onr pays any attention to Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (6/586)
We are going to discuss some of the arguments against the idea that the earth is round. They said: There is sound evidence that the earth is round, but the common folk say otherwise. Our response – and Allah is the source of strength – is that none of the leading Muslim scholars who deserve to be called imams or leaders in knowledge (may Allah be pleased with them) denied that the earth is round, and there is no narration from them to deny that. Rather the evidence in the Qur’an and Sunnah stated that it is round. … and he quoted evidence to that effect
al-Fasl fi’l-Milal wa’l-Ahwa’ wa’l-Nihal (2/78)
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Consensus that the Earth is round
118698
Question
Is there consensus that the Earth is round? If there is, then what is the evidence from the Qur’an or Sunnah that the Earth is round or egg shaped?
Answer
Praise be to Allah.
More than one of the scholars have narrated that there is consensus that the Earth is round. For example:
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) narrated that from Abu’l-Husayn ibn al-Munaadi (may Allah have mercy on him), when he said:
Imam Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al-Munaadi narrated from the prominent scholars who are well known for knowledge of reports and major works in religious sciences, from the second level of Ahmad’s companions, that there was no difference of opinion among the scholars that the sky is like a ball.
He said: Similarly they were unanimously agreed that the Earth, with all that is contains of land and sea is like a ball. He said: That is indicated by the fact that the sun, moon and stars do not rise and set over those who are in different parts of the earth at the same time; rather that occurs in the east before it occurs in the west.
End quote from Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (25/195)
He (may Allah have mercy on him) was asked about two men who disputed about the nature of heaven and earth: were they both round bodies? One of them said that they were, but the other denied that and said there is no basis for that. What is the correct view?
He replied:
The heavens are round, according to the Muslim scholars. More than one of the scholars and Muslim leaders narrated that the Muslims are unanimously agreed on that, such as Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al-Munaadi, one of the leading figures among the second level of the companions of Imam Ahmad, who wrote approximately four hundred books. Consensus on this point was also narrated by Imam Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm and Abu’l-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi. The scholars narrated that with well-known chains of narration (isnaads) from the Sahaabah and Taabi‘een, and they quoted that from the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger. They discussed that in detail with orally-transmitted evidence. There is also mathematical evidence to that effect, and I do not know of anyone among the well-known Muslim scholars who denied that, apart from a few of those who engaged in arguments who, when they debated with the astrologers denied it for the sake of argument and said: It may be square or hexagonal and so on. They did not deny that it could be round, but they said that the opposite of that was possible. I do not know of anyone who said that it is not round – with any certainty – apart from some ignorant people to whom no one pays any attention.
End quote from Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (6/586)
Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm (may Allah have mercy on him) said: Evidence for the earth being round:
Abu Muhammad said: We are going to discuss some of the arguments against the idea that the earth is round. They said: There is sound evidence that the earth is round, but the common folk say otherwise. Our response – and Allah is the source of strength – is that none of the leading Muslim scholars who deserve to be called imams or leaders in knowledge (may Allah be pleased with them) denied that the earth is round, and there is no narration from them to deny that. Rather the evidence in the Qur’an and Sunnah stated that it is round. … and he quoted evidence to that effect.
End quote from al-Fasl fi’l-Milal wa’l-Ahwa’ wa’l-Nihal (2/78)
The evidence that the earth is round includes the following:
Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“He created the heavens and earth for a true purpose; He wraps the night around the day and the day around the night”
[az-Zumar 39:5].
Ibn Hazm and others quoted this verse as evidence.
Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
The earth is round, based on the evidence of the Qur’an, reality, and scientific views.
The evidence of the Qur’an is the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“He created the heavens and earth for a true purpose; He wraps the night around [yukawwir] the day and the day around the night”
[az-Zumar 39:5].
The word yukawwir (translated here as “wraps around” means to make something round, like a turban. It is well-known that night and day follow one another on earth, which implies that the Earth is round, because if you wrap one thing around another thing, and the thing that it is wrapped around is the Earth, then Earth must be round.
With regard to real-life evidence, this has been proven. If a man were to fly from Jeddah, for example, heading west, he would come back to Jeddah from the east, if he flew in a straight line. This is something concerning which no one differs.
With regard to the words of the scholars, they stated that if a man died in the west at sunset, and another died in the west at sunset, and there was some distance between them, the one who died in the west at sunset would inherit from the one who died in the east at sunset, if he was one of his heirs. This indicates that the earth is round, because if the earth were flat, sunset in all regions would occur at the same time. Once this is established, no one can deny it. This is not contradicted by the verses in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Do they not look at the camels, how they are created?
And at the heaven, how it is raised?
And at the mountains, how they are rooted and fixed firm?
And at the earth, how it is spread out?”
[al-Ghaashiyah 88:17-20]
Because the Earth is huge and its curvature cannot be seen from a short distance, it appears to be spread out and one cannot see anything that would make one fear living on it, but this does not contradict the fact that it is round, because it is very big. However they say that it is not evenly round; rather it is indented or pushed in at the north and south poles. Hence they say that it is egg-shaped.
Fataawa Noor ‘ala ad-Darb
Reconciling between the view that the Earth is round and the verse “And Allah has made for you the earth wide spread (an expanse)” [Nooh 71:19]
211655
Question
Could you please explain these Quranic verse. Actually one Non Muslim asked me to explain these verses.
Quran 71:19 And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out).
Quran 78:6 Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, What does it mean ?
Quran 15:19 And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.
Does it mean that Earth is flat? Tafsir Jalalayn says that EARTH is flat. But it is against Established Science.
Answer
Praise be to Allah
Firstly:
The scholars are unanimously agreed that the earth is round, but to human eyes it appears to be flat, because it is very big and its roundness or curvature cannot be seen at close distances. So the one who stands and looks sees it as flat, but when viewed as a whole, in reality it is round.
Ibn Hazm (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
The proofs of the Qur’an and Sunnah indicate that it is round. End quote.
See also the answers to questions no. 201530 and 118698
Secondly:
The verse (interpretation of the meaning) “And Allah has made for you the earth wide spread (an expanse)” [Nooh 71:19] indicates that it is spread out and shaped so that people can feel settled in it and be able to live and prosper in it. Ibn Katheer said:
That is, He spread it out, prepared it, made it stable and made it firm by means of the mountains.
Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 8/247
Similarly, the verse (interpretation of the meaning) “Have We not made the earth as a bed” [an-Naba’ 78:6] means that it is spread out and prepared for you and for your benefit, so that you can cultivate it, build dwellings in it and travel through it.
Ibn Katheer said:
That is, it is prepared for people in such a way that they can live in it, and it is firm, stable and steady.
Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 8/307
And the verse (interpretation of the meaning) “And the earth We spread out, and placed therein firm mountains, and caused to grow therein all kinds of things in due proportion” [al-Hijr 15:19] means We spread it out and placed firm mountains therein. This is like the verse in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And it is He Who spread out the earth, and placed therein firm mountains and rivers” [ar-Ra‘d 13:3].
There is no contradiction between saying that it is round and saying that it was spread out, because in fact in its totality it is round, but to the one who stands on it and looks at it, it appears flat, as it appears to everyone.
Ar-Raazi (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
If it is said: Do the words “And the earth We spread out” indicate that it is flat?
We would respond: Yes, because the earth, even though it is round, is an enormous sphere, and each little part of this enormous sphere, when it is looked at, appears to be flat. As that is the case, this will dispel what they mentioned of confusion. The evidence for that is the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “And the mountains as pegs” [an-Naba’ 78:7]. He called them awtaad (pegs) even though these mountains may have large flat surfaces. And the same is true in this case.
Tafseer ar-Raazi, 19/131
The author of this piece is a deliberate liar. The Quran states the earth’s surface is flat while the earthbitself is a sphere. The scholars since the 8th century have been in consensus that the Quran and hadith point explicitly to a round earth with a flattened surface.
The author is a moron!
Too many muslims in denial in the comments saying you changed the meanings of the Aiyat how ironic of them.The Quran clearly says that land is spread out and they are trying to work their way around it to prove otherwise. Just stop, this is pathetic.
Let me correct you .my Holy Quran says that the earth egg shaped : spherical
It’s like a carpet means that the crust of the earth is wrapped on the egg shaped core .
And how dare you say that Islam promotes those sins you mentioned , are you out of your mind . Islam Restricts all muslims from All Sins.
I can prove that humans are made out of clay.
You put a dead body in water,it does not dissolve
You put a dead body in fire , it turns to Ash but does not become fire,you put aa dea body in air , it does not become air ,but you put a dead body under the ground , its withers away until nothing is left.
The moon never split? Then whats the big crack mark throughout its surface?(which you don’t know about and will go on blabbering about that there is no mark without research)
There are no jinnat? I personally have experienced things I can’t say and
I hope one finds his way to you.
And thunder is not an angel?
Well who ever said that thunder is an angel?
Thunder is what the angel rides upon.
And the result of obedience of Allah is violence crime and hatred?
Allah’s only order is to do justice and spread love which is explained in the Quran as a how-to.
Where Prophet Muhammad S.A.W is the practical example of that how-to.
And violence intolerance etc are in US,Europe although they don’t follow Islam can you tell me why?
No you can’t cuz you just can’t.
You just got owned
“It’s like a carpet means that the crust of the earth is wrapped on the egg shaped core” Stop creating new meanings. This is dumb.
Um am I read egg? I am not sure does earth look like egg?
Still you it said “carpet” and you changed the topic and jumped up to the berse thing.loser.
Ah yes, spreading ignorance and believing that order can come from nothing.
Typical.
https://islamqa.info/en/211655
https://islammyth.wordpress.com/2018/05/20/dr-zakir-naik-lied-the-quran-does-not-describe-egg-shaped-earth/
holy shit thay translation is so wrong it gave me cancer
Believing in a Baal sphere going around the sun in the infinit space with us people who came from an explosion, first we was monkeys, than we make (D) EVOLUTION transforming same as we are today
(ALL OF THIS IS A SELF-DISTRACTION)
You can’t be a muslim and in same time believing in such a thing no way only if you are a highly fool mind.
If you believe in this stop saying you are a muslim, you are not, YOU ARE A FOOL ATHEIST (with Qur’an in hand /similarly in which Allah says about DONKEY keeping BOOKS in his back).
Anyone with half a brain knows that NASA are liars and deceives. This plane is most definitely flat. Only fools think they live on a spinning baby blue ball.
“Anyone with half a brain knows that NASA are liars and deceives” – Those people will full brains know that they are not.
You going through all this try to prove “something”. You just want the ayah to fit your ideology. There’s no science or explanation behind it. You are basically talking with baseless opinion. Astronomy have existed many years ago and many of the Astronomy are Muslims. Both proven by science and the Quran itself. The earth actually not “perfectly” round in shape but instead it is a bit smaller in the middle due to earth rotation on its axis. So it does have that “egg” looking features to it. Don’t ever try to interpret the Quran without a strong knowledge. I’m afraid that you will change the real meaning behind the Quran. Not everyone can interpret the Quran.
When presented with facts, there are two ways muslims react to them, one is to call names “racists”, “bigots”. The second way is to make excuses such as the one above “Not everyone can interpret the quran”. If muslims are so good at astronomy, why does the quran mentions that thunder are angels and stars are missiles used against the devils. If muslims are so good at maths, science and astronomy, where the fuck is your rocket? NASA went to space and back. Fuck you on about dirty pedo.
Lmao. Who invented thd first rocket??? Whos a dirty pedo your dad??? Excuses? Ya moron. The ir was no question tho the answer of we layed the earth flat as a carpet. It could also mean that look how even bei g round its flat to u and everythings in balance. Dirty??? You brush your teeth twice a day. I wash my ass more than 5 times a day. That means .scientifically that means my ass is cleaner than tour mouth
And the sun runs its course to a place appointed, that is the determining of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. Qur’an 36:38
The universe’s lamp, the sun, forms a window onto the existence and unity of the universe’s Maker that is as brilliant and luminous as the sun itself. Indeed, despite their great differences with regard to size, position, and speed, the twelve planets including our globe known as the solar system are in motion and revolve with perfect order and wisdom and perfect balance without a second’s confusion, and are bound to the sun through a Divine law known as gravity, that is, they follow their leader as though in prayer. This demonstrates on a vast scale the tremendousness of Divine power and the unity of their Sustainer. Those lifeless bodies, those vast unconscious masses, are rotated and employed within the utmost order and wise balance, in various forms and over varying distances and in varying motions, proving the degree of the power and the wisdom; you compare for yourself. If chance was to interfere the tiniest amount in this vast and complex matter, it would cause an explosion so great it would scatter the universe. If it was to arrest the motion of one of them for a minute, it would cause it to leave its orbit and would open the possibility of its colliding with another planet.You can understand how awesome would be the collision of bodies thousands of times larger than the earth.
Now we shall refer to the all-encompassing knowledge of God the wonders of the solar system, that is, the twelve planets which are the sun’s followers and fruits, and consider only our own planet, the earth, which is here before our eyes. We see that our planet is made to travel on a long journey around the sun by a dominical command as its most important duty –as is described in the Third Letter– in a way that demonstrates the grandeur of dominical majesty and the loftiness of the sovereignty of the Godhead and the perfection of His mercy and wisdom. It has been made a dominical ship filled with the wonders of Divine art, and a travelling dwelling like an exhibition, for God’s conscious servants to gaze on. And the moon has been attached to it with precise reckoning for mighty instances of wisdom, like being an hour-hand for telling the time. The moon too has been given various mansions through which to journey. Thus, these aspects of this blessed planet of ours prove the necessary existence and unity of a Possessor of Absolute Power with a testimony as powerful as the globe of the earth itself. You can make an analogy with the rest of the solar system from this.
Furthermore, the sun is made to turn on its own axis like a spinning-wheel, in order to wind into a ball the immaterial threads called gravity and tie the planets with them and set them in order. So too is it impelled together with its planets at a speed that cuts five hours’ distance a second towards, according to one estimate, the Constellation of Hercules, or towards the ‘Sun of Suns’. This most certainly occurs through the power and at the command of the All-Glorious One, the Monarch of Pre-Eternity and Post-Eternity. It is as though He makes the solar system perform these manoeuvres like a platoon of soldiers under orders, and so demonstrates the majesty of His dominicality.
O you astronomers! What chance can interfere in these matters? The hands of what causes can reach them? What force can draw close to this? Come on, you say! Would an All-Glorious Monarch such as this display impotence and permit others to have a role in his sovereignty? Would He give to other hands living creatures in particular, which are the fruit, result, aim, and essence of the universe? Would He permit another to interfere? Especially man, would He leave him to his own devices, the most comprehensive of those fruits, the most perfect of the results, vicegerent of the earth, and His mirror-like guest? Would He refer him to nature and chance and reduce the majesty of His sovereignty to nothing; reduce to nothing His perfect wisdom?
Have We not made the earth a cradle, And the mountains as pegs, And created you as pairs? Qur’an 78:6-8 So behold the signs of God’s Mercy, how He raises to life the earth after its death. Qur’an 30:50
The globe of the earth is a head with a hundred thousand mouths. In each mouth are a hundred thousand tongues. On each tongue are a hundred thousand proofs, each one of which testifies in numerous ways to the necessary existence, unity, sacred attributes, and Most Beautiful Names of an All-Glorious One.
Yes, we consider the first creation of the earth and we see that rock was created from matter in a fluid state, and that soil was created from rock. If that substance had remained fluid, it would not have been habitable, and if after becoming rock, the fluid had become hard as iron, it would not have suitable for use. So what gave it its state was surely the wisdom of an All-Wise Maker Who saw the needs of the earth’s inhabitants. Then the layer of soil was thrown over the pegs of mountains so that the earthquakes arising from internal upheavals could breathe through the mountains and they would not cause the earth to be shaken out of its motion and duties, and so that the mountains would preserve the earth from the encroachment of the sea, and all would be storehouses for the vital necessities of living beings, and would purify the air from noxious gases so allowing living beings to breathe, and so that they would accumulate and hold water reserves, and would be a source and mine for the minerals necessary for living creatures.
Thus, this situation testifies most clearly and powerfully to the necessary existence and unity of a Possessor of Absolute Power, an All-Wise and Compassionate One.
O geographers! With what can you explain this? What chance could make this dominical ship full of these wonderful creatures into an exhibition of marvels, and spin it at a speed whereby it covers a distance of twenty-four thousand years a year while not allowing a single of the objects arranged on its face to fall off?
Consider also the strange arts on the face of the earth. How wisely the elements are employed in their functions! How well they attend to the guests of the Most Merciful One on the earth through the command of that All-Wise and Powerful One, and hasten to serve them!
Also look at these embroidered lines within strange and wondrous arts on face of the earth, multicolored and full of strange wisdom! See how the brooks and streams, seas and rivers, mountains and hills have all been made dwellings and means of transport suitable for His various creatures and servants. See how with perfect wisdom and order He has then filled them with hundreds of thousands of varieties of plants and animals, and given them life and made them rejoice, and how regularly minute by minute He discharges the creatures and empties those dwellings with death, and then once again in orderly fashion refills them in the form of ‘resurrection after death.’ This testifies with hundreds of thousands of tongues to the necessary existence and unity of an All-Powerful One of Glory, an All-Wise One of Perfection.
In Short: The earth, the face of which is an exhibition of marvels of art, a display of wonders of creation, a place of passage for the caravans of beings, and a mosque and dwelling for the ranks of worshippers, is like the heart of all the universe; it thus displays the light of Divine unity to the same degree as the universe.
O geographer! If the head of the earth has a hundred thousand mouths and with the hundred thousand tongues in each it makes known God, and still you do not recognize Him and plunge your head in the swamp of nature, then ponder over the greatness of your fault! Know what a grievous punishment it makes you deserve! Come to your senses and extract your head from the swamp! Say, I believe in God in Whose hand is the sovereignty of all things.
….and Christains that believe their rendition of the Torah reads any different in their bible need to pull their head out of their ass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0Gp6ecagdM
As in the bible the word flat is never mentioned.
Can be made to fit nothing more.
EVIDENCE like watching a simple sun set proves “ if nothing else the earth is not flat! “
The sun does not fade into the distance but drops down.
THE EARTH IS NOT FLAT ! Perspective; convergence; atmospheric lensing
CANNOT ACCOUNT FOR 7/8 ths OF THE SUN BEING CUT OFF AT THE BOTTOM.
Sam gerrans, flat earth…. search for him..on YouTube on internet… the earth is flat.. not a spinning ball with water on it.. you are just looking stupid not knowing the Qur’an
Just read the Sam Gerrans Quran.. non Islamic…. quranite.Com
So who was the first Muslim who stated that earth is round after reading Qur’an, in history?
Very good question, maybe Zakir Naik (jk)
It’s probably Ibn Hazm from 11th century.
whomever you are stop with the bs you know damn well the Quran is not talking about spreading a carpet over a damn sphere
You are correct, the Quran does not imply anywhere that the Earth is a sphere. If anything it is leaning towards a leveled earth or non spherical earth. People have to choose between what scientists claim or what the Bible and Quran claim
The torah speak of a, solid sky structure.. a firmament.. earth is flat… why most ancients claimed so….. a ball with water on it is 1970s unproven .. very new… and fake
So let’s do another approach. We emphazis on the word “made”. He Who has, MADE for you the earth like a carpet spread out. It means that God MADE the earth very very big compare to humankind so we will see that the land is flat.
The person who has given his own interpretation of Quranic word “DAHAHA” does not give any logical answer as he has just been beating around the bush and finally said Dahaha does not mean “Ostrich Egg” out of his own wish. But whoever want to know the meaning of word DAHAHA could see the word representing Ostrich Egg in ancient Arabic and surely he will find the word DAHAHA there.
Dahaha does not mean Ostrich egg, look it up in the classical arabic definition and what people (back then) who understood the language say
You guys are mislead, and not very observant of the truth to Islam. Ultimately, you guys are just not very smart because you do not have rational insightful understanding that can be understood just by rational logic.
We Muslim know the carpet means the ability to walk on, sit on, and relax on, like a cover. A carpet can be bumpy due to the textual nature of the land the carpet was laid on. because you lay a carpet onto the ground that is presumed flat, doesn’t mean your planet is not round or spherical.
The Quran mentions sun rising from the Easts and and sets in the Wests, there is no way Easts and Wests can exist without the degree’s that indicate the plains of what is east and what is west. The driving force for this understanding is the rotation of the sun we see on earth.
Ultimately, since the earth is in orbit we know that the rises from the Easts (from different positions, not just 1 fixed position) and sets in the Wests (from multiple positions, not one specific position) this is due to the orbit and the spherical nature of Earth.
So the lord of the universe speaks of the earth being in orbit and it has a spherical nature (which common science identifies as an Easts and Wests). The lord of the universe also glorifies his ability to make his landscape flat like a carpet to relax on, walk on, not some odd shaped platform that is deemed uncomfortable. You wouldn’t put a carpet on the very tip of a mountains peek that is pointy, would you?
Here is what a scholar can also tell you:
Praise be to Allah
Firstly:
The scholars are unanimously agreed that the earth is round, but to human eyes it appears to be flat, because it is very big and its roundness or curvature cannot be seen at close distances. So the one who stands and looks sees it as flat, but when viewed as a whole, in reality it is round.
Ibn Hazm (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
The proofs of the Qur’an and Sunnah indicate that it is round. End quote.
See also the answers to questions no. 201530 and 118698
Secondly:
The verse (interpretation of the meaning) “And Allah has made for you the earth wide spread (an expanse)” [Nooh 71:19] indicates that it is spread out and shaped so that people can feel settled in it and be able to live and prosper in it. Ibn Katheer said:
That is, He spread it out, prepared it, made it stable and made it firm by means of the mountains.
Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 8/247
Similarly, the verse (interpretation of the meaning) “Have We not made the earth as a bed” [an-Naba’ 78:6] means that it is spread out and prepared for you and for your benefit, so that you can cultivate it, build dwellings in it and travel through it.
Ibn Katheer said:
That is, it is prepared for people in such a way that they can live in it, and it is firm, stable and steady.
Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 8/307
And the verse (interpretation of the meaning) “And the earth We spread out, and placed therein firm mountains, and caused to grow therein all kinds of things in due proportion” [al-Hijr 15:19] means We spread it out and placed firm mountains therein. This is like the verse in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And it is He Who spread out the earth, and placed therein firm mountains and rivers” [ar-Ra‘d 13:3].
There is no contradiction between saying that it is round and saying that it was spread out, because in fact in its totality it is round, but to the one who stands on it and looks at it, it appears flat, as it appears to everyone.
Ar-Raazi (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
If it is said: Do the words “And the earth We spread out” indicate that it is flat?
We would respond: Yes, because the earth, even though it is round, is an enormous sphere, and each little part of this enormous sphere, when it is looked at, appears to be flat. As that is the case, this will dispel what they mentioned of confusion. The evidence for that is the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “And the mountains as pegs” [an-Naba’ 78:7]. He called them awtaad (pegs) even though these mountains may have large flat surfaces. And the same is true in this case.
End quote from Tafseer ar-Raazi, 19/131
Shaykh ash-Shanqeeti (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
If the scholars of Islam affirm that the earth is round, then what would they say about the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Do they not look at the camels, how they are created?
And at the heaven, how it is raised?
And at the mountains, how they are rooted and fixed firm?
And at the earth, how it is spread out?”
[al-Ghaashiyah 88:17-20].
Their response will be the same as their response concerning the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water” [al-Kahf 18:86] – that is, as it appears to be in the eye of the beholder, because the sun sets on one country, but remains up in the sky for another, until it rises from the east on the following morning. So the earth looks flat in every region or part of it, because of its immense size.
This does not contradict its real shape, because we may see a very high mountain, but if we climb it and reach its summit we may find a flat surface there, and find an entire nation living there, and some of the people there may not know anything about the rest of the world, and so on. End quote.
Adwa’ al-Bayaan, 8/428
Shaykh Rafee‘ ad-Deen ibn Waliyullah ad-Dahlawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said in his book at-Takmeel:
Some may understand words such as “made the earth as a bed” [an-Naba’ 78:6], “He spread the earth” [an-Naazi‘aat 79:30] and “…how it is spread out…” [al-Ghaashiyah 88: 20] as meaning that it is flat, whereas the scholars affirm that it is round on the basis of sound evidence, so it is thought that there is a conflict. That may be refuted by the fact that the visible part of it (for a person standing on it) appears flat, because the larger a circle is, the more spread out it is, so we may say that it is flat on the basis of that part of it that is visible to us, and it is round in its totality, on the basis of rational thinking.
Quoted from him by Siddeeq Hasan Khan in his tafseer, Fath al-Bayaan, 15/208
And Allah knows best.
Brother, I urge you to go to “sam gerrans” channel on YOUTUBE. Be did the pantextual translation of the Quran, he is an Arabic linguist.. he has a dedicated video on the truth of the flat earth. I think people are scared that the earth could be flat, especially athiest.. however if you do really believe in God, then why cant the earth be flat? Why can’t Satan exist to lie on such a grand scale? NASA is lies.. why they don’t let you go to Antarctica on your own and only at 3 points and fire a high price… cause we are surrounded by it.. the antarctic circle.. they lied to make us think we are a spec of dust.. cause of they let the truth be known, then God would be feared further more. Athiest would not exist..
Mankind has only been able to dig/drill 8 miles deep.. so nobody has any true idea what’s below further down.. it’s only a guess.
Also the sky He raised as a canopy, a ceiling. So w have a dome above, the sky is a solid structure.
77.25, We have made the earth a container. (Also, Job 37.18, can you like Him, spread out the skies hard as molten mirror?) Container.
79.30 is not talking about an ostrich egg but a ostrich nest.. laid out and we’ll protected.
2.22 the sky a structure…..
7.40 the skies have gates…..
17.92, cause the sky to fall in peices….
21.32, sky a protected roof….
25.61, moon and burning torch therein…
50.60, no Gaps in the sky….
We ain’t spinning into space.. the waters above the firmament are real. There is no space.
A person who has eyes to see, ears to hear and a heart for understanding ;)
I believe the sky has gates my beloved mother in law was cremated and 2days after her cremation I saw my self lying down on soil in her garden bed and she just come out of her home on her walking stick the sky warped as like when you throw a stone in the water then suddenly so quickly the sky opened exactly like a gate and she zoomed up as if like your in a lift and within split seconds she was gone the gates shut so quick …subhanaallah .may she rest in piece inshaallah
Refutation
The Quran says that Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet. This gives an indication that the earth is flat. Does this not contradict established modern science?
The question refers to a verse from the Qur’an in Surah Nuh:
“And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out).” The Holy Qur’an, Chapter 71, Verse 19
But the sentence in the above verse is not complete. It continues in the next verse, explaining the previous verse. It says: “That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads.” The Holy Quran, Chapter 71, Verse 20
A similar message is repeated in Surah TaHa:
“He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)….” The Holy Quran, Chapter 20, Verse 53
The surface of the earth i.e. earth’s crust is less than 30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles. The deeper layers of the earth are very hot, fluid and hostile to any form of life. The earth’s crust is a solidified shell on which we can live. The Quran rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths.
Not a single verse of the Quran says that the earth is flat. The Quran only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet.
Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Quran describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it. The Quran is thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later.
Similarly, the Quran says in several verses that the earth has been spread out.
“And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!” The Holy Quran, Chapter 51, Verse 48
Similarly the Quran also mentions in several other verses that the earth is an expanse:
“Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse. And the mountains as pegs?” The Holy Quran, Chapter 78, Verse 6-7
None of these verses of the Quran contain even the slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The Quran says:
“O My servants who believe! truly. spacious is My Earth: therefore serve ye Me –(And Me alone)!”
The Holy Quran, Chapter 29, Verse 56
Therefore none can give the excuse, that he could not do good and was forced to do evil because of the surroundings and circumstances.
The Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse: “And we have made the earth egg shaped”. The Holy Quran, Chapter 79, Verse 30
The “dahu” in the Arabic Language means to extend and even out. It is said: “daha” the thing; “yad’hu dahwan”. These terms can mean he either evened out and extended it or he threw it and rolled it. It is also said: “the rain daha the stones from the face of the earth,” which means it rolled it and washed it away. It is also said: “The horse passed by yad’hu dahwan,” which means he is beating his foot on the ground and yad’hu its sand. Also, the ostrich’s mad’hi means its laying of its eggs, and “ad’hiha” is the nest where its chicks are born.
So as we clearly see, all of the above Arabic words that are derived from “daha” mean:
1- To extend.
2- To roll.
3- To even out.
4- Causing to become egg-shaped or creating, making or producing eggs (see the ostrich’s mad’hi example above).
The meanings all derive from the root word in arabic, there is nothing wrong with applying all the meanings especially amazing in this situation seeing as they are all true. Arabic is a rich language and words usually have more then one meaning
The Arabic word dahaha in Noble Verse 79:30 above did have multiple meanings and uses. One of them was when one refers to an ostrich egg. Another was when referring to making something extended, spread out, stretched and/or expanded. This is an example of how Allah Almighty uses scientific notions in the Noble Quran when He talked about how He created certain things. He gave words that had multiple meanings and interpretations to them to make the Noble Quran truly be for all times and all places, and show it has deeper meanings. The meanings unravel more and more as scientific discoveries increase
The shape of the earth being similar to an oblate spheroid [ Also according to Wikipedia: “The Earth’s shape is very close to an oblate spheroid—a rounded shape with a bulge around the equator—although the precise shape (the geoid) varies from this by up to 100 metres (327 ft).”
Eggs can be described as prolate spheroids, ovate spehroids or oblate spheroids. The fact is the word used in the Quran has particular root link to an ostrich egg
We are specifically observing an Ostrich egg which does resemble an Oblate Spheroid and NOT Prolate Spheroid. More over technical labeling is irrelevant since these are invented modern names that we ascribe to the earth. How would it make sense for God to describe the earth as an ‘Oblate spheroid’ 1400 years ago? Even if God were to describe the Earth as simply ’round’ it would be incorrect. Describing the Earth as resembling an ostrich egg is very significant and precise as it was not only unique at the time but is still accurate and visually relevant
Thus its not just a case of bad translation, the words in arabic have multiple meanings and all cant be used at once however deeper analysis do show that all the meanings are accurate. This however is not likely to convince the non muslim who most probably thinks the muslims are stretching it abit and using words they want to use, which is their choice and is fair enough. But to say the verses are irrelevant is incorrect, they certainly have some merit
you don’t seem to understand arabic very well do you
carpet in arabic is very specific in arabic it’s “bisata” and it functions as a bisat because it stretches it’s corners to make a flat earth
dahaha means to make something completely flat , when an ostrich hit the ground with it’s legs it makes a flat surface like a pizza
it’s the opposite the quran never at all mentions that the earth is round
there is ofcourse a claim that the quran says that day wraps night and night wraps day
so let’s check this claim and i want you to focus :
imagine a room where you have two part’s of the room , the first part of the room you have the light switched off , the second part of the room has the light switched on
and you have half a ball in the lit room and half in the dark room and according to science this ball rotates(this is exactly how the daily movement works)
conclusion : the lit room(day) never shines on the dark room(night) and the dark room never hides the lit room(WTF)
how can night wrap the earth
a final blow that the earth is flat in quran:
we say your face turning to the sky(for prayer) , so turn thy face to face the masjid wherever you are
this is not possible except by a flat earth
and look at how the earth was flattened :?????
how do you flatten a sphere and why would you use this word if you are god , does god want to deceive us?
flattened is a verb and btw it’s not talking about terrain so forget about that because the earth’s terrain is not flat
it’s actually talking about how the earth is stretching as a flat disk
the quran wouldn’t mention the earth is flat because it’s poetry , it always does that , it won’t mention the earth is flat because it’s obvious so he likened it to a carpet
and btw poetry before islam(pre islamic period of ignorance) never said that the earth is flat they just likened it to things that are flat
even daha al ard(earth) was used before islam in poetry so you have no position here and you will keep denying how the quran likened the earth to a flat disk because you are afraid
The Quran also calls earth a container, containers can’t be flat.
I cant follow your logic at all man. If it says day wraps night while night wraps day simultaneously, doesnt that represent reality that earth is always consumed by both at the same time? Because its round?
A picture of the earth from space will show a
You an earth wrapped in light and half dark.. and add movement of time and rotation tothe image…. its like a snake eating its tail the light wraps around the dark while dark wraps around light as it rotates….
As though dark is chasing light and light chasing dark on opposite ends. Makes sense to me.
And ive never heard dahaha used to reference an ostrich making a flat surface…ever.
To be a honest, from a literary standpoint uf i amuse you and pretend it means flattening as you say, flattening the Earth could also mean that in the earth’s formation in prehistory when everything was mountainous lava and Jagged Earth filled with noxious gases and crazy amounts of boiling water and mointains (uninhabitable landscape) God flattened and made it habitable in terms of the actual surface area not the shape of planet itself.. so man idk.. you said poetry *shrug *
The wrapping of day and night happens in the sky not on the flat earth or sphere earth. Also the word dahaha is an action not a noun. People can translate it as ostrich egg if they want, but in classical arabic it means to make the earth comfortable to walk on and lay on just like the Ostrich prepares the ground to lay the eggs to be in a comfortable environment
Mr. Dave, the author of this article seems to be a carpet seller promoting his carpet business here. There’s a proper word for the carpet in Arabic. And Arabs very well know that word too, since carpets are mfd/imported and sold in Arab lands more than anywhere in the world.
Nowhere, the planet earth is described with the word “Carpet” in the Holy Quran.
Please bear in mind that Qur’an is the book of “Signs” and not “Science”, which invites to contemplate, ruminate and think, otherwise there wouldn’t have been a single non Muslim.
Now, coming to the main point:
spherical earth is described in the Holy Qur’an around 15 centuries ago in several verses, but to cite a few refer to:
[Quran 39.5] [Allah] Created the heavens and the Earth in truth. He overlaps [Yukawwar in Arabic يُكَوِّرُ] the night over the day and overlaps [Yukawwar يُكَوِّرُ] the day over the night, and enslaved the sun and the moon. ALL MOVE (Kullon Yajree كل يجري) to a prerecorded destiny. Is He not the Exalted, the Forgiver?
The word Yukawwar in Arabic is derived from Kurra, which clearly means sphere or ball. Arab’s only favorite sport Football in Arabic is called as “Kurrat-ul-qadam” ( کرةالقدم). Not just this, but the description of overlapping of the day after night and night after day proves the spherical shape and it’s rotation too. Otherwise, instead of overlapping a sudden day and sudden night would’ve happened, had the earth’s surface been flat.
In fact Kullon Yajree (كل يجري) “all moving”, too describes a continuous motion which the science has discovered too lately. Otherwise, first scientists believed earth stable and all other planets moving/revolving around it including sun. Then they make a complete “U” turn and claimed that, the sun is stable and other planets rotate around it, that means in a fixed set. But now scientists claim that however, planets rotate around the sun but the sun too is not stable and moving along with its rotational group of planets towards unknown destination in the universe. Later they claimed every thing in the universe is rotating around a fixed orbit and set, but all these sets are continuously moving and expanding away from the base, the location where occurred the Big Bang.
Few other related verses below:
[Quran 55,33] O company of Jinn and man, escape the diameters (Aktar in Arabic اقطار) of the Heavens and the Earth if you can, You won’t escape without authority.
[Quran 7.54] And your Lord, Allah, who created the Heavens and the Earth in six days and then settled on the Throne. [Allah] Covers the night with the day, asks for it persistently; and the sun and the moon and the stars enslaved by His orders. Is this not His creation and His command? Blessed be Allah the Lord of all the worlds.
and
[Quran 50.7] And the earth We have spread it out (والارض مددناها), and set thereon mountains standing firm, and have produced therein every kind of lovely pairs (of plants).
you don’t seem to understand arabic very well do you
carpet in arabic is very specific in arabic it’s “bisata” and it functions as a bisat because it stretches it’s corners to make a flat earth
dahaha means to make something completely flat , when an ostrich hit the ground with it’s legs it makes a flat surface like a pizza
it’s the opposite the quran never at all mentions that the earth is round
there is ofcourse a claim that the quran says that day wraps night and night wraps day
so let’s check this claim and i want you to focus :
imagine a room where you have two part’s of the room , the first part of the room you have the light switched off , the second part of the room has the light switched on
and you have half a ball in the lit room and half in the dark room and according to science this ball rotates(this is exactly how the daily movement works)
conclusion : the lit room(day) never shines on the dark room(night) and the dark room never hides the lit room(WTF)
how can night wrap the earth , the sun moves in circles so it wraps around around earth that doesn’t mean it’s a sphere in quran , yokawir means increases and not wraps because you are not talking about turban
a final blow that the earth is flat in quran:
we say your face turning to the sky(for prayer) , so turn thy face to face the masjid wherever you are
this is not possible except by a flat earth
and look at how the earth was flattened :?????
how do you flatten a sphere and why would you use this word if you are god , does god want to deceive us?
flattened is a verb and btw it’s not talking about terrain so forget about that because the earth’s terrain is not flat
it’s actually talking about how the earth is stretching as a flat disk
the quran wouldn’t mention the earth is flat because it’s poetry , it always does that , it won’t mention the earth is flat because it’s obvious so he likened it to a carpet
and btw poetry before islam(pre islamic period of ignorance) never said that the earth is flat they just likened it to things that are flat
even daha al ard(earth) was used before islam in poetry so you have no position here and you will keep denying how the quran likened the earth to a flat disk because you are afraid
You would be crazy to think that i’ll be damned for eternity for a book that creates these kinds of problems , the book should be clear but it’s not
it’s only one verse that you say it describes the shape of the earth but it doesn’t even describe the shape of the earth and we have a lot of verses that describe a flat earth , this book is an insult to a person’s intellectual mind, it never helps determine what it wants but when science says something they try to fit the quran with known science and it doesn’t help a single
person , it just make them muslims feel cozy when they fall a sleep because the quran is “right” and that those muslims are going to heaven and everyone else will be damned in hell for eternity .
By the name of Allah the Merciful, all praise is for Allah the best of creators. (This is how Muhammad peace be upon him used to open his speeches)
Thanks for the people of the website for leaving us a place to comment. I am Muslim and I ask Allah to guide many people with what im saying. This is what I sent to my Christian friend regarding flat Earth, please read to the end:
-First off I give you the verses followed by the commentary:
The perfect Qur’an:
“Do they not look at the Camels, how they are made? [17] And at the sky, how it is raised? [18] And at the Mountains, how they are fixed firm? [19] And at the Earth, how it is spread out? [20] Therefore do thou give admonition, for thou art one to admonish. [21]Thou art not one to manage (men’s) affairs. [22]”
The idea that earth is flat is an error from the bible translators, Hebrew is a complex language that cannot be translated literally like English, it’s a language of poetry like Arabic. Remember what I told you that day? These are clearly verses that show the marvel of creation to the atheists, there is nothing marvelous in earth being flat, except if it’s a ball in reality, it is indeed marvelous how a ball is flat and people at the bottom don’t fall, and how the camels were created, and how the sky (galaxies are raised without pillars, and the mountains are a marvel if you look at them.
-And now going the to verses that show that the Earth is round in the Qur’an, and listen to me atheists, Imagine if Muhammad peace be upon him told us 1,400 years ago that earth is round.. How do you think their reaction will be like? They would certainly say he is a mad man, it has to be in hints for the next generation to come, we can bare this knowledge.
“He created the heavens and earth for a true purpose; He wraps the night around [yukawwir] the day and the day around the night”
The Noble Qur’an, [az-Zumar 39:5].
The word yukawwir (wraps around) is the same word that is used to describe the act of wrapping a turban around the head and that is the metaphor which was used in the commentary of Aljalalein. It is well-known that night and day follow one another on earth, which implies that the Earth is round.
QUOTE:
“Humm, the cognitive dissonance is strong in this one.
So has anybody seen a spherically shaped area that has had a carpet rolled out on it … ever?”
Yes, the Earth
Typical Atheist shill
You’ll have to choose between what scientists claim and what the Quran claims. That is why the Quran is called the Furqan (the divider, the splitter). Peace and good luck
This is really ridiculous and disgusting to justify an unreasonable narrative. So a carpet can’t be spiral or spread on a circular structure? And is he saying mountain are not found on a slope or slide surface?
Check this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNqNnUJVcVs
To al the atheist. Prove us the earth is a ball or egg shaped. There is now a large group flat earthers and we are still growing in numbers. The earth is not a ball ! All pictures of earth are images made on a computer. No picture of earth what so ever only fake drawings from NASA.
We have prove that no man ever went to space or the moon. Dear muslims. You know Alkah says in quran there is a ceiling over the earth and no one can pass that protective ceiling! These atheists take fake pictures of non extistend space and faked moon landings to trow dirt in your eyes and say quran is false. Quran is right. Earth is flat and the sun and the moon are Verry close and Smal orbiting a flat earth in circles. We as muslims stand firm in this belief and in Alkah we put or trust.
Ibrahim, you cannot tell an atheist the earth is flat
, they need to desperately cling on to the spinning ball of lies, even when they find out the truth they will deny, no hope for them.
@Ibrahim. The Quraan says no such things. Leave the answering and commentary of the Quraan to the eminent scholars. If you can’t even realise that flat earth makes NO SENSE whatsoever and every possible scientific explanation WITHOUT the need of NASA clearly shows the earth is a sphere then how are you capable of understanding the Quraan which is not in the spoken Arabic but a grammatically advanced Arabic where every word makes a difference. The fact that the words this atheist filth is trying distort doesn’t once say FLAT yet he’s desperately trying to make it out so should be sufficient for any reader to realise he’s the actual straw-man in the entire article above. I will post a link soon that answers everything above. Don’t fall for flat earth BS and don’t fall for atheist BS.. they’re both are deprived of understanding as each other.
The Quran and bible claim earth is flat. If you are not made of understanding then your not.
You need to read yourself the books. Not depend on a scholar… many are against each other and you favor them over your own understanding?
Read it yourself. It’s flat
NASA is a joke. The laugh is on you all that think it’s a spinning ball with water on it.
No doubt Bible translations in English say the earth is flat, but Qur’an don’t, as I’ve explained in detail in my somewhere above post.
Bible says that Earth is a 2 dimensional flat disk and the heaven is like a canopy: Isaiah 40:22. And since Earth is flat then Jesus could see the entire Earth from a single high location Matthew 4:8)
Explain please what “structure” means.. and “ceiling” as God describes the sky with these.. or a “canopy” or a “container”… The God of the Torah and Quran are the same one. Both books confirm earth has a structure as a sky.
If you keep depending on scholars rather than your own intellect (by reading the Quran many times, with the purpose of being guided) then you will go astray. Quran wants you to think for yourself it doesn’t want you to believe anything scientists and scholars say, as the book itself claims it is those people who make their followers go astray
Ibraheem don’t be stupid..
God told us in the Quran:
Say, “With Allah is the far-reaching argument. If He had willed, He would have guided you all.”
And also “There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the right path has become distinct from the wrong path.”
God sent us the 100% truth, you just have to find it, don’t go contradicting logic in the Name of Islam; if you don’t have the convincing logic, go learn first instead of saying nonsense.
Allah didn’t leave us with without logic, you just have to learn first.
Ibrahim,
If you’ve little kernel in the cranium, wakeup in the early morning well before the sun rises and observe sunrise from an elevated place little out side your town in the fields. See how gradually light spreads quite prior to sunrise and then the sun appears about more than an hour later from the horizon. If you couldn’t discern the process go repeatedly until you could understand.
The same process you could observe in reverse order during evening at sunset in to the horizon from the same place. But preferably sunrise is more descriptive and understandable than sunset.
That proves, earth is not a flat surface. Had it been flat, instead of all this process you would witness sudden appearance and sudden disappearance of the sun. Sudden dark to sudden light in the morning and vise versa in the night.
Blinded in believe , you need mentall help.
Interesting – so you believe the Earth is flat because the Qu’ran tells you so. And yet all your bothers here are claiming the Qu’ran does not say so.
First of all, Allah’s earth definition is different from science’s earth definition. Allah is talking about ground or land that we walk on, sleep on etc while science is talking about planet like moon,sun,star etc. secondly, the word “spread out” does not means flat but rather it means wide open, spacious, and the word “bed” also does not refers to flat but something you walk on, sleep on, build on etc. For instance, does river’s bed means something flat so, you don’t have point.
You didnt read his article well enough. It clearly explains why it applies to the whole earth and not just to local area.
First of all, Allah’s earth definition is different from science’s earth definition. Allah is talking about ground or land that we walk on, sleep on etc while science is talking about planet like moon,sun,star etc. secondly, the word “spread out” does not means flat but rather it means wide open, spacious, and the word “bed” also does not refers to flat but something you walk on, sleep on, build on etc. For instance, does river’s bed means something flat so, you have point.
What it meant is that..our almighty god whom we call Allah in arabic made the land flat for us so that we may perform our purposes in life
The earth is flat. Your eyes prove it seeing the horizon eye level regardless of elevation. That is only physically possible on a flat extended plane.
Your statement is quite confusing. Do you want to prove flatness of earth with help of horizon? Can you explain it more precisely?
If the horizon remains at eye level no matter how high up you go, then the earth is flat, or an extremely huge sphere where we cannot detect its curve. Based on the measurements they tell us about the earth, it doesn’t seem to match reality
These are great Ayahs for understanding of Human.
Great Almighty Allah wants us to realize his rewards on Humanity for making the earth flat like carpet to travel & make our routine easy. It doesn’t means that dia of earth is flat..Quran has not claimed it anywhere. If Allah would address the residents of skies Angels etc regarding earth then he would have definitely said that shape of planet earth is round like ball. But since we the human live on this earth, so Allah told us what we get benefits from his creations.
So I request all the malice critical peoples to think twice before trying to make argues on divine book.
Well, the Holy Qur’an describes earth as a spherical shaped object too. I’ve described with ayah quoted in detail somewhere above in my latest comment.
It is a LIE. Quran doe NOT describe earth as spherical object. Please stop lying. “Dahaha” never meant any ostrich egg. This nonsense was invented to deviate attention by false grammar toward false science. Read comments on this above in the main article.
Unfortunately we are dealing here with a debased mindset of some bigoted fanatical atheist who himself acknowledged that the earth assumes the perfect shape of an egg which science describes as elipse.
Coming to the issue of flatness of earth. The carpet when unfurled looks flat on something which is immensely gigantic despite the shape of an egg. It is another miracle of Allah -we are walking on an elliptical shape which looks flat. We feel only the flatness like a carpet without sensing the wobbling effect despite the rotational and revolutional effect of the earth.
We feel like walking on a stretched carpet and air pressure keeps us from floating into space.
Sorry, it’s not air pressure but the strong gravitational pull that prevents us to float in the air or fall down from Southern hemisphere.
Whata bunch of horse $&;7 this article is. God’s verses in the Quran is stating like a carpet allowing us to make use of it, to live on to grow crops on etc. from a persons point of view on earth it does look flat not to say earth itself is flat. And by the way if the Quran isn’t Gods words implying it’s written by man then why weren’t the words changed to reflect that it’s round? That’s because you are misinterpreting the words.
And what are you talking about intolerance. Islam teaches exactly the opposite. Does it “accept” homosexually? Of course not neither does any religion but it’s doesn’t say to Mistreat them, Islam and prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was sent as a mercy to all mankind. He spent most of his life reaching out to guide people of “other beliefs” not kill them. It promotes murder and stoning? Interesting, show me a verse within its context. You can only kill when being attacked or driven out of your home. Plain and simple.
// And what are you talking about intolerance. Islam teaches exactly the opposite. Does it “accept” homosexually? Of course not //
Er … that’s called “Intolerance”.
// it’s doesn’t say to Mistreat them //
Abu Dawud’s authoritative hadith collection records a report from Abdullah ibn Abbas (Book 38, Number 4447):
There is a big difference between what the Quran says (which is the word of God) and what some people write. If you want to have an understanding of Islam look into the Quran don’t waste your time with the Hadiths
“And the earth, moreover, hath He made egg shaped.”
[Al-Qur’an 79:30]
The Arabic word for egg here is dahaahaa1 which means an ostrich-egg. The shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth. Thus the Qur’an correctly describes the shape of the earth, though the prevalent notion when the Qur’an was revealed was that the earth was flat.
Daha; to spread out,to flatten… this in an association to ostrich nest.. not an egg. UHIYA; based on same arabic root is ostrich nest. The earth is also immovable as we are taught in Quran… earth has no movement. Spread like a carpet(flat) the sun and moon chase each other and have there own orbit… again the bible also confirms this flat earth.. and it is flat.
[Quran 39.5] [Allah] Created the heavens and the Earth in truth. He overlaps [Yukawwar in Arabic يُكَوِّرُ] the night over the day and overlaps[Yukawwar يُكَوِّرُ] the day over the night, and enslaved the sun and the moon. ALL MOVE (Kullon Yajree كل يجري) to a prerecorded destiny. Is He not the Exalted, the Forgiver?
Kurra ————–Yukawwar
Ball/sphere—- rotating/spinning ball.
Arabic English
Kurrat-ul-qadam = Foot-ball
ALL MOVE (Kullon Yajree كل يجري)
More detail you can find in one of the recent comments above of mine.
THESE ARE SELF EDITED BY SPETICAL SCIENCE writter
its tottaly wrong
It’s correct.. cause the earth is flat… again the bible confirms this also. You really beleive NASA? Those false pictures cgi? Common sense and scientific observation is your answer. The Quran is right. This sounds ridiculous but only cause we been indoctrined from birth on this huge Lie. Why do you think we are not allowed to go to the antartic circle? That’s where the dome starts… the stars rotate around us… look at the star time lapse… and we’re supposedly spinning orbiting sun and pulled with the sun at fast speeds… yet these stars are making perfect circles? Why does the horizon never fall when you take flight? Always at eye level… it’s no globe .. horizon needs to fall on a globe. Water does not curve either… gravity is only a thoery… look at the nasa launches… they always level out .. there is no space. All cgi… look into this.. it’s worth your time. But open your mind first
Maybe the egg-shaped and spread out like carpet means that the earth is like the shape of an egg content, so it matched with the bible earth looks i think, because we live under the firmament, imagine the egg yolk is our earth, thats why the koran said it. God will always guide us to the truth if we seek!
The earth is flat. Look into it. The quran and bible both agree. Don’t beleive in nasa Nor Hollywood.
the bible actually refers to the earth being round but ok
Not at all.. far from a spinning ball…. bible mentions a solid dome above us.. water above the dome… the ancients are right… you beleive in Hollywood and nasa lies.. just look into it.. i could stamp many verses here but do your research.. just put bible verses flat earth and this will make so much sense… do debunk this just yet til you look into it. The earth is flat. Give it a shot
The earth is flat… the bible stands on this alone..
Quran 77:25 – 77: 27 invalidates the flat earth theory, as a container cannot contain something if it is indeed flat. This is sheer indication of Life/Death being inside a container flying through space containing mountains/rivers and things to support life. Which is atypical of most (possibly all, won’t deny) other objects and containersin space.
Have We not made the earth a container
Of the living and the dead?
And We placed therein lofty, firmly set mountains and have given you to drink sweet water.
you are really idiot
Quraan says earth is round in these verses
Azzumur:
5) He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power – He Who forgives again and again?
There are other verses and notions about it but I can’t recall then now, and for the mentioned verses they mean Allah swt made earth spread for you.with respect to your size on it to live, build and cultivate on it and spread your roads, and if you knew Arabic, you would be sure it doesn’t suggest earth is flat
Ok we can agree on it that Quran says earth is spherical like ostrich egg or round but not flat. But even then we go through the findings of Aristotle which were proposed before the emergence of Quran. And in those findings Aristotle declared that the Earth was a sphere (based on observations he made about which constellations you could see in the sky as you travelled further and further away from the equator). Aristotle’s demonstration was so compelling that a spherical Earth was the central assumption of all subsequent philosophers of the Classical era. Following are the observation for which he deduced the shperical shape of earth.
• Persons living in southern lands see southern constellations higher above the horizon than those living in northern lands.
• The shadow of the Earth on the Moon during a lunar eclipse is round.
• The fact that objects fall to Earth towards its center means that if it were constructed of small bits of matter originally, these parts would naturally settle into a spherical shape.
Aristotle’s arguments for the spherical shape of the Earth are given in On the Heavens , Book 2, Part 14 (350 BCE).
So Quran is right and you are right. But the idea of round or spherical shape is extracted from the Aristotle finding and in science it is called plagiarism. And it also makes Quranic verses controversial more precisely man made stories.
A spinning ball hurtling through space pulled by the sun at over 800,000 mph… NASA says.
Bible says
1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm …”
Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable …”
Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
Isaiah 45:18: “…who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast…”
Q. 16:15
And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest IT [the earth] should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves
Quran confirms bible on flat earth.
Not moving.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/egg-shaped_earth.htm This link should sum it up quite nicely, nice psuedo-research they have here on this site. But proper references and citations required. Real Science is not beveling in he said/she said rhetoric. A well studied individual in the language of Arabic (not just classical, or modern, but ancient, North/South etc.) would easily render the passage as saying the earth is round.
Etymological uses of daHaha fit into the context of how it was used 1500 years ago, is quote obvious.
Also, Quran 77:25 – 77: 27 invalidates the flat earth theory, as a container cannot contain something if it is indeed flat. This is sheer indication of Life/Death being inside a container flying through space containing mountains/rivers and things to support life. Which is atypical of most (possibly all, won’t deny) other objects and containers in space.
Brother, you do not speak Arabic and criticize the Qur’an. This first, our understanding of the states of non-translated. Qur’an mentioned states for spherical Earth
And what about the four corners of the earth in the Bible fake
We have to be careful here for the Bible states God holds the stars and planets in place and that was mis-interpreted to mean everything revolves around the earth, the geo-centric philosophy which Galileo and Copernicus proved to be wrong, the former almost giving his life speaking that heresy. The carpet analogy is clumsy at best and could quite well mean to some poorly-read people in the islamic world the earth is in fact flat.
To me, the true contradiction of the koran/quran is in 5:46&47. It is no secret the book alludes to Jesus and the Torah, and the Gospel of Jesus. The problem arises in they feel MAN has interpolated God’s word incorrectly, introducing a polytheistic model. So Allah then tells the followers of the Gospel to judge what is revealed within the Bible. Wait- you believe the Bible is FALLIBLE, yet you incite it to be worthy of reflection, introspection and spiritual guidance? Typical earthly wisdom being revealed as a falsehood by the Holy Spirit and virtue.
If the thought of Muhammad (pbuh) was superstitious, And if wasn’t based on afflatus (his revelation of divine), he never dared to invite man to “science”, So where in the holly Quran about 950 times has been spoken , the science, thought and wisdom (reason). (Henry Corbin)
Philosopher, theologian and professor of Islamic Studies.
then the quran is by gods breath in this regard because obviously you are slow to understand the arguments being waged on the flat earth model….by the way the bible subscribes to the same laws….gravity is a unproven theory at best…….go argue with eric dubay and rob skiba and watch mr science leave with his tail between his legs…….tell me stupid…why does fresh water not respond to tidal variations?….A….salt….figure that and the electrical conductivity therein and youre half way to becoming a flat earther….bigot
Gravity is the result of the Earth’s magnetosphere. You’re just that retarded that, you flunked 4 grade science. Way to go full retard.
It looks like a carpet to us you fool!
Noche and good. Mohammed was a peadofile and bla, bla…
BUT, where it speaks about the ‘earth’ it seems to refer to the LAND MASSES, and these can be perfectly interpreted as flat layers on a sphere.
The bible, at least the Old Testament was written in the Bronze Age by a bunch of shepherds in the backwaters of Civilization, no wonder that they thought the earth was flat. Much the same anybody and the dog did at that time.
The Koran (which I use as toilet paper, of course) was written in the VI century by a nation that made a living form trade with Europe and Asia through both the sea and the Silk Road… And the sphericity of the earth was already common knowledge during the Roman Empire.
Yes, it’s fun and OK to bash them friggin’ towelheads, but if your site has ‘science’ in the title you should at least know what you are talking about mate.
Greetings to Mr Trump
Alla vi kommer att ansvara för våra synder. .. speciellt du med såna uttalande. .. idiot jävel
Your a moron who can’t spell. And your talking about God. Go to hell.
I know an entire population of “flat-earthers” who would chew this argument to shreds
Dear in the Quran Allah Says , Allah giving hidayath ( straight way ) through Quran to the People who looking for Right path and Also Gumrah ( Miss guide ) People who do not want the Right Path.
For your Objection I have a Answer but in Quran Allah Says:
Indeed, those who disbelieve – it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them – they will not believe.
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.
Yeah bro i know these verses…. in the starting of surah Baqarah right? But if you have the answer, explain it! Give this man a hard time! Go on
Sorry why you write a big article like this and you don’t know anything about the Arabic language or Islamic science? You present a translation that is really badly manipulated without any reference of an Islamic known scolar or any reference to the Islamic interpretation. For every verse in the Quran we have an interpretation from our Prophet , peace be upon him, how to understand verses. The verses in Arabic are not mentioning any kind of carpet, so the whole article is based on nothing.
Please check these articles instead, these articles are made from people with Islamic knowledge:
http://www.truth-seeker.info/quran-science-2/the-seven-earths/
http://www.truth-seeker.info/quran-science-2/astronomy-proves-the-quran-as-the-word-of-god/
the author quoted a saudi islamic scholar at the bottom. what more proof do you want about the translation. saudi arabic is the arabic of the Quran no?
No its not, Qurayshi Arabic is, and soon after put into classical arabic. Saudi arabic doesn’t hold a candle to Classical Arabic.
You need a history lesson of the Arabic language. Saudis don’t speak the same Arabic spoken 1400 years ago, just like modern English and old English
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk4YqPtvJao
THE LINK I FOUND INTRIGUING
JUST LOOKING AT THOERIES OF FLAT EART BY PRF BYRD AND THEN ALSO THIS LINK WITH AN OPEN MIND LET ME SAY, DONT LET MY :
USE IMAGINTAION AND THINK OUTSIDE OF BOX ASLWELL AS LOOKING AT DEPTHS OF DEFINITIONS- COOL MAN YOUR VIEW IS ISLAM IS WRONG FINE- BUT STILL MAYBE THE EARTH IS NOT AS ROUND AS WE ALL THOUGHT (OR IT IS ROUND WITH AN INVISIBILE DPME SHILED THAT MAKLES IT ROUND/ OR EGG SHAPED (AIR AIND CLOUDS, SKY, LYERS OF SKY)) SPREAD FROM ONE WHOLE PIECE OUTWARDS, CARPET TEXTILES (ARABAIAN TIMES).
OPEN YOUR MIND, P.S YOU SOUND ANGRY IN YOUR VERY LOGICALLY REASONED COUNTER ARGUMENTS- NO DOUBT IF THIS SIMPLE EMAIL CHALLENGES YOU ENOGU WILL FIND A REBUTTAL ONCE AGAIN AND YEH IT MIGHT BUG ME (DEPENDING ON MY MOOD) BUT YOU KNOW WHAT THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH POSTIVIE MEDIATTIONS PRAYERS AND THINGS THAT PROMOTE PEACEFUL THOUGHTS AND HARMANNY EVEN IN CONFLICT! YOU WANT TO CRTEATE CONFLICT IN CONFLICT SO IT APEARS. TRUE PEACE AND TRUE JUSTICE.
P.S NO TIME TO GO BACK CORRECT SPEELLING AND GRAMMER ETC TO IMPRESS YOU , ONE FURTHER WAY TO ATTACK ME, DISARMED.
LIGHTHOUSE FAMILY – QUESTION OF FAITH- JUST COZ YOU AINT GOT IT DONT KILL OTHERS MR SMART BRAIN PANTS, ATHIEST LOVE KILLING THE HEARTS OF THOSE LONELY DESPERATE PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET WHO TRULY JUST NEED SOME LOVE AND FAITH
PEACE AND BLESSINGS BE WITH YOU ANDF MAY GOD SHOW YOU YOUR GOOD RIGHT PEACEFUL PATH. SHALOM, SALAAM, PEACE.
ROGERED YOU, OVER AND OUT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk4YqPtvJao
THE EARTHS LAND WAS ONE PIECE TILL IT WAS SPREAD OUT ACORSS THE OCEANS AS WE ARE NOW TOO. JUST SAYING. .F=
Hmmm
Islamophobia.
I don’t know how much the writer of this article know about arabic language but I am a native arabic speaker and when I hear the word دحاها dahaha(quran 79:30) all I think about is round things, I am from tunisia and we use this word to refere to a fat person , women booty, or round object even kids says dahdah(دحدح) to refer to the grand wheel
Then do a little more research to find out the real meaning of dahaha, not because Zakir Naik said it means round
The writer of this article doesn’t seem to understand a word of arabic. The word mahdan (which is your strongest claim of a flat earth…which is what your bible says ‘btw’) it means in the ‘context’ that God Almighty made earth a peacful place for living for human beings and for them to spread wherever they want across it seeking life! Ask any arab to translate the verse for you, and don’t use google translate. See, the beauty of Quran is that i can read it in my mother tongue and understand it, and I never need to listen to haters like yourself trying to make up false translations. I feel you though, i know that false translations are plenty in the bible.
nowhere in the qur’an is mention made of the earth being eggshaped. In fact reference is made of a dome above us in verses where mentioned is made of when the sky is cleft assunder or rent assunder. You cannot expect gases to fall to the earth only a solid object which the sky is.
of course the earth is flat. check out youtube for flat earth clues
EARTH IS FLAT! WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!! Search on YouTube 200 Proofs that the Earth is Not a Spinning Ball.
Let’s assume the Qur’an is the book of an All-Mighty Omniscient God. Being the Word of God, the Qur’an must be eternal yet, because of the limits of space-time that creation is caught in, the message of the Book should also
consider the knowledge of the human beings of the day. After all, since the Qur’an was first revealed to 6th century Arabs, it is necessary that it makes sense to them in order for them to popularize it so that its message grows and expands to all peoples at all times. Standing as we do now in this day and age with our knowledge and achievements, our imaginations really have no limits as to what is humanly possible. This has not always been the case, which is a reality that is unfathomable to us. From his vantage point in history, the modern human is often indiscernibly biased in his understanding of the world. That is to say, we, as modern individuals, take for granted information that we view as common sense today and fall into the error of assuming that this was always the case. The Earth being round is one such fact that we take for granted. It has been so thoroughly proven and accepted in today’s world that we believe it as common sense, despite the fact that if we were to use only our five senses without any aids, we would naturally default to an immediately perceived understanding derived from the limitations of our senses, which is that the world is flat. Indeed, if we were to take a person born in modern times and drop him off as an infant on a desert island devoid of any modern trappings, the odds are that this person, without any scientific instruments, or mathematics or inherited knowledge whatsoever, would conceive the world as he or she has been exposed, which would be as flat. That would be a very natural conclusion and was in fact the default understanding that the vast majority of humanity had until the invention of glass lenses, and the discovery of the mathematics and astronomy. Now, returning to the Qur’an, a book believed by Muslims to be revealed by an Omniscient All-Mighty God to an Arab in 6th Century Arabia: given the limitations of time-space and the reality of what we know today and what was known then, how could any message consider those conflicting realities and harmonize the message so that its end product is an eternal, universal message? The only way to do this is to do what the Qur’an does, by employing words with compounded meanings. Arabic, the language of the Qur’an, with its root structure, allows for an array of compounded meaning to be derived from its words, which create interpretations that individuals in different times and places can derive meaning from. The way the Qur’an describes the Earth is such an example and there are a myriad of examples where the language allows flexibility so that different people with different biases can see what they want from the text, with the possibility that neither is wholly or partially wrong. The Qur’an evens mentions that it can be used to either guide a person aright or “cause them to err”, meaning to reinforce their disbelief in it (2:26). That said, not all things are open to debate, since the wording on many topics are as clear as day. One such topic is the infallibility of the Qur’an and its state of being free from discrepancy (4:82). This was known among the contemporaries of Muhammad, which is why the traditions and the Qur’an itself are full of references to instances when Muhammad was challenged in order to reveal discrepancies. Now imagine being an Arab who is a contemporary of Muhammad and a verse of the Qur’an was revealed stating in clear, unambiguous terms that the Earth is round. Would that not have appeared to all of his contemporaries as a clear error vis-a-vis their common sense at the time? That revelation alone, at that time, could have very well been the death knell of Islam as a new religion. Look at what happened to Galileo and Copernicus, and they had scientific instruments and empirical evidence to corroborate their conclusion and still that was insufficient for the powers-to-be in their times. How would it have been any different among the highly superstitious and rudimentary Arabs of Muhammad’s time? Instead, what the Qur’an does is reveal a known reality to the Arabs at the time in order for them to understand the blessings God had given to them as their Creator, while using wording that provides an “Easter egg” (for lack of a better expression) for later, more sophisticated generations to come to understand. For example, when the Qur’an described the land as a carpet, this is evident to the Arabs at the time, but what is interesting is that the wording for “madad”, translated more accurately as “spreading out” in order to comply with “carpet” in 15:19, likewise for “mahdan” in 20:53, convey a meaning of something being rolled out or unspun. Carpets, as we all know, are seen almost exclusively in two states, flat or rolled up. When rolled up, it tends to show an irregular circular shape along its fringes yet when rolled out into its inert state, it is flat. Also, it is evident that a carpet acts as a cover placed upon what is beneath it, so it ultimately is subjective as to what it lays upon. The Qur’an then does not make the mistake of saying the earth was cast or paved or painted but rather that the earth that we see before us has been unspun like carpet, conveying the sense that God has given us the expanse that we can see of Earth for our disposal like a host lays out a carpet, bed or table for a guest. In this sense, the “earth-as-carpet acts more like a metaphor than definitive simile that can give rise to a syllogism, although as a simile, it is not a wholly incorrect one for any person reading it, not for the Arabs of Muhammad’s time who see what it says as evident and what we can surmise from its meaning today. We know today that the Earth is spherical, and that the Earth has layers and yes, a good simile we can use to explain the function of the upper crust of the Earth, the only one we see and experience on an everyday level, is as a carpet, since it is a cover for what is below it. It is flat as far as the limited vantage point of an individual standing nearly anywhere upon it, whether that be today or 6th Century Arabia. The reality is that the syllogism of the Qur’an stating the Earth is like a carpet and thus the earth is flat never caught on with the Muslims, which is evident in the fact that Muslims, both religious and scientific scholars, for hundreds of years unanimously agreed upon the roundness of the Earth and never took the Qur’an to be contradictory of that fact or used it as an impediment towards accepting it as a fact.
First of it wasn’t NASA who said the earth was round. You guys should head down to the beach and see when the boats fail down when they reach the end of the water and disappear from your sight: I bet that happens a lot. I don’t really speak Arabic so I can’t argue with the translation issues but somewhere I read that the quran agrees with the expanding universe but at the same time it says the sky is like a roof on the earth. For the life of me I have never seen an expanding roof.
MOTHERFUCKER FAKE ALLHA , CHILD RAPEST LIAR MOHAMMADS FUNNY RELIGION .ALLHA MUST BE A MAN AND CRAZY FOR VARGINE HURIES !
Alif-Lam-Mim. [These letters are one of the miracles of the Quran and none but Allah (Alone) knows their meanings].
This is the Book (the Quran), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqun [the pious and righteous persons who fear Allah much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)].
Have some manners Mr.. if you don’t agree something just shut your bloody mouth and stay away.
Also the word falak فلك is used which means a rotating pathway (فلكه) each moves in it’s own falak.. this word used each time describing the moon, sun and earth movements
[Quran 39.5] [Allah] Created the heavens and the Earth in truth. He overlaps [Yukawer in Arabic] the night over the day and overlaps [Yukawer يُكَوِّرُ] the day over the night, and enslaved the sun and the moon. ALL MOVE (Kullon Yajree كل يجري) move to a prerecorded destiny. Is He not the Exalted, the Forgiver?
The Arabic word “Kura” means ball; its verb “Yukawer” means: to make into a ball. The Quran says that the overlapping of the night and the day makes a ball (sphere)
Earth might be flat, who knows. There are so many nonreligious folks out there that believe Earth is flat, and NASA has been fooling us into believing in a round Earth. Quran does not earn anything by stating that Earth is flat several times. But NASA and those who seek to hide the real truth have much to gain by hiding the flatness of Earth. Saying this i still am not sure who’ s right in this delimma.
god dammit, people getting dumb these days like pythecantrophus erectus
The Quran has the answer for you, good luck ;)
That the moon was split in two. That Noah built a boat to put animals on two by two. There’s not enough water in the world…. Including all the clouds condensed and then It still couldn’t submerge the planet. A boat would would have to be a super super super super super tanker to get each species on. That would mean lions and flys wolf’s and sheep deciding to be friends for a 40 days. But hang on what about food for all the animals? And this was before Jesus. Wonder where the blue print for engineering that boat went. Then the prophet Mohammed flying of to paradise on a winged horse cat figure. C’mon!!!! If the moon split this would cause the world to spin out of control. Tides and countries affected would be insane.
Remember…. If God was the creator of everything. He knows everything blah blah. Who created God? Now let there be…. Some rubbish about some verse where it’s hard to get the translation right.
At the end of the day. Religion has a part in people’s lives. Science has a part in others. But me if there is a hell I’m going there. It’ll be a better laugh.
The Bible says the Earth is flat (so no point mocking the Qur’an). If the Qur’an says it is flat then they are in tune.
There is a exponentially going movement that states the Earth is Flat.
That the Earth is quite possibly as the Bible describes.
NASA is a massive hoax. We never went to the Moon. There are no photos of the Earth from space showing the globe – not one. They are all composites and artist impressions.
Keep up folks, the Earth is Flat. Flat Earth Theory is here to stay.
The Qur’an says that the earth is egg-shaped and spread out (as in VAST).
Arabic is very deep language and translation from arabic to english might be wrong. there is no carpet mentioned in verse if you translate work by word. and earth is flat for us if you travel all over the world you will never feel it round.our brain understands it as flat.scientifically there is difference between what you see the things around you and how they are made,
switch you dimension of understanding you will find it correct.
what is wrong id Qur’an says earth is flattened so you can live in? :)
Can you plant vegetables on earth?
Can you build a home?
Can you travel around the world?
That is flattened for.
So, what is wrong in that? haha you are funny.
I challenge anyone can give me 1 prove that there is one thing wrong in Quran.
I challenge anyone can give me 1 prove that there is one thing wrong in Quran.
Ants can’t talk! Will that do? And don’t bother posting that drivel from Islamic apologists that claim there’s a species of ant that can make an audible noise, as that doesn’t equate to the complex language that teh talking ants are using in the Qur’an.
Mate, Robert Hickling, one of the notable researcher , said” ants don’t respond to the human voices nor are they affected by it. But when we direct it to suitable vibrations, it is affected and respond to them. This means that ants have their own language and they are completely like human beings”
The Phil De Vries discovered that insects release weak acoustic vibrations that ants can distinguish; the aphid, secretes a sugary substance that ants like, this insect releases vibrations during its work that ants pick and consequently rush to their livelihood. Thus acoustic vibrations are tools of communication among insects.
Look, currently with our science we haven`t done too much work into ants. We don`t know too much about them. And its very possible that they do actually communicate. Also, even if we were to test all the species of the world and found they can not communicate, the ants talked about here are from thousands of years ago. There`s definitely a chance that they could communicate. And of course as I`ve quoted above, theres some science which agrees with my points but im sure you can find points against as well.
And He (i.e., Allah) it is Who created the night and the day, the sun and the moon. They float, each in a falak (The Noble Quran, 21:33). Ibn Abbas says: A falaka like that of a spinning wheel. Just saying that to say that the quran actually says that the world is round
Oh and you can ask me about any “contradictions/mistakes” in the Quran.
Saqlain,
There is no issue with the observation that ants communicate, however that is not the claim. If you read Sura 27: 18-19 then you discover that the claim is that Mohammed could not only hear the ants talking, but that they talked to each other in a language that he understood, and that is clearly not factual by any measure. The precise text reads …
Until, when they came upon the valley of the ants, an ant said, “O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not.”
So [Solomon] smiled, amused at her speech, and said, “My Lord, enable me to be grateful for Your favor which You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents and to do righteousness of which You approve. And admit me by Your mercy into [the ranks of] Your righteous servants.”
Regarding the cosmology in the quran, the verse you quote simply confirms the prevailing flat earth view. Here are three quite good translations of the Sura you quoted ..
PICKTHALL
And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.
SHAKIR
And He it is Who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all (orbs) travel along swiftly in their celestial spheres.
YUSUF ALI
It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.
Here we have a flat earth and over it the sun and moon move. Today we now know that it is the earth that orbits the sun. The sun does not move, the earth does, so you would need to explain why Allah did not know that.
The falak is spinning wheel, but wheel is flat when placed on ground. Rest my case world is flat x
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg0r__RrZhA a demo of falak or sun and moon floating at1.44;00 mins of video….
What I am gonna say is quite funny to most of you but it’s true.
The Qur’an is a great book and those sentences don’t refer to Flat or Round earth, if you believe the earth is round then you will think that those verses are talking about the earth as Land and not as a planet. And if you think the earth is flat then you will see those verses as if they are saying that the earth is flat. But in reality we don’t know.
They are not clear. And the English translation is not perfect, Translations can never be perfect 100% Any translator will understand what I mean.
Now to Round Earth Believers, please double check if the earth is really round, I am sure you are thinking now, what a dumba**. It’s ok if you call me that now, That’s normal, I accept it. I used to call Flat Earthers the same thing few years ago but after doing my own researches I discovered myself that the earth is not round, I have no idea what the hell it is but I can prove to y’all with my poor equipments that the earth is not what they told us it is.
So it can be flat as it looks like, and it’s better to stop making fun of Qur’an or Flat Earthers, because the earth is NOT round. and if you think it is then prove it.
Or show me just one REAL picture of the round earth. A real one.
They say they got 20.000 satellites in the sky, so tell them to give us one real picture of the whole earth. We should have millions of Real pictures of the earth by now. I know you are thinking now about GPS and Google Earth.
You should know that the pictures in Google Earth are not made by satellites Google company says that itself.
And GPS only works with Mobile Towers. There are no Satellites in the sky and all you got is CGI images. You got nothing real, they brainwashed all of us and it’s time to wake up.
By the way, the gravity does not exist neither. And you can’t prove its existance. You can only prove it if the earth was round but once you discover the earth is not round, the Gravity will stop making sense to you.
Wake up
Dave Gamble
your statmemts are moronic maybe you need to get a life
A bed is not completely flat, a carpet is not completely flat, and the earth is not completely flat! There is no statement in the Quran saying the earth is flat not one but maybe you brain is flat! Even the evidence you use doesn’t state the earth is flat so maybe your brain is a sientific enomoly.
Dave
It’s the opposite quran incerage science please google islamic science.
Night comer star, how could a human knew that 1400 year ago.
The golden ratio in Quran , pure science. Please google Golden ratio in Quran
The list goes on and on
As I pointed out … you can do this with any text at all … there is nothing magic here …
MATHEMATICAL MIRACLES IN MOBY DICK:
The word IRON appears 85 times. The word METAL appears 10 times.
85+10=95
Atomic Number of Iron = 26, Atomic Weight = 55, Total Isotopes = 14,
55+26+14=95
Word construct appears 1 time,
Word Create appears 1 time,
Word Water appears 5 times,
Word Air Appears 2 times
1+1+5+2=9
Hydrogen Atomic Nubmer = 1, Oxygen Atomic Nubmer = 8
8+1=9.
Today, scientists tell us, both hydrogen and oxygen combines to gives us water. MIRACLE!
And many assasination were predicted in the holy Moby Dick: http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html
How could have Herman Melville (PBUH) known this scientific facts? Unbelievers will tell you that it’s all by chance – they’re too blind to see the miracles !!
I was taking about different thing
http://youtu.be/RjKGlNVmnqc
The Reality is that the Egyptians recorded exactly the same long before the quran was written. This is also part of ancient Libyan mythology that states the same. It is not exactly a huge leap to see it being copied and repeated in the Quran. In fact Verses 53:45-46 are so similar to Ra’s masturbation text from Egypt that it would breach modern copyright laws if they applied then.
To be 100% clear … 53:45-46 … is a copy of a text that predated the Qur’an by about 2,900 years as evidenced by the pyramid text of Pharaoh Pepi I, 2332-2283 BC …
… so given that Ra clearly was a god that was divinely inspired because he inspired “modern scientific” information, can I now assume that you will soon be abandoning Islam and worshiping the Egyptian god Ra?
I know 53:45-46 is a plagiarism without any citation. But there is a problem. Pyramid text of Pepi was written approximately 3000 years before Quran and in hieroglyphs. That pyramid text came to our knowledge after discovery of that text and discovery of reading and understanding of egyptian hieroglyphs. So far I know JF Chapollion discovered reading and understanding of hieroglyphs in 19 century. Now question is How the author of the Quran know this fact without discovering pyramid text and hieroglyphs? Does it make the author very special? Could you please show you scholarship in this matter?
Dear Dave,
If it was like you said some human wrote it, then help me out to answer this. First, dont forgot that Quran was there 600 years after Jesus peace be upon him and the Quran book was not change till today.
What I’ll tell you is one of many things , that today science just discovered. It was in Quran 1400 years ago.
”
Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example – that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, “What did Allah intend by this as an example?” He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient,”
2. In the following slides, we will mention some of thebiological skills of the mosquitoes, these will explainthe wisdom behind the mention of the mosquitoin this verse.Please note that the verse says that the mosquitoes carry or host a smaller creatures. These can’t be seen unless magnified by the electronic microscope. Recently a very tiny creature is photographed on the back of the mosquito.This proves that this book is revealed from God.
There are many facts not only this
Thanks
// In the following slides //
Cutting and pasting does not cut it.
You need to step back and ask yourself if taking a vague quote from an ancient religious text and crowbarring in a modern meaning is meaningful? (Hint: it’s not, you can do this with any text at all).
For example …
Scientific miracles mentioned in Moby dick that cannot be told by a human decades ago.
Those scientific miracles are being confirmed today by the scientists.
Osteoporosis: “It was in Queen Anne’s time that the bone was in its glory” [..] (Chapter lxxv – THE RIGHT WHALE’S HEAD – CONTRASTED VIEW)
Evolution: “That all creatures of the land are of their kind in the sea”[…] (Chapter lviii – BRIT)
Red Nebula: “Stubb longed for vermillion star” […]
Big Bang: “and the ball, and the explosion; so the graceful repose of the line” [..] (Chapter lx – THE LINE).
Now if the quran actually contained explicit information previously unknown, that would be impressive, but drill down into all these “modern science in the quran” claims, and you quite honestly do not find that.
One other observation, most mainstream Islamic scholars also dismiss this “Modern Science in the Quran” claim that only really emerged in the 1970s … for a reason. So you don’t just need to persuade us, you also need to persuade them.
Actually no … the reality is that the Quran is simply a book that some humans wrote their beliefs into. The fact that it contains a flat earth with a roof over it cosmology confirms that.
The Creator ask His creations to think about the surface of earth being spread out flat with provision with waters . And when one thinks about it, you get to compare it with the surface found on moon and it being waterless. Basically it talks about God being the Provider and His creations need to heed His decree
Arabic to English can be a tad tricky, the words in brackets are an attempt to convey a more precise translation
why so many (in brackets) things in your statements ?
I dont know how much you feel better now playing in words to spread false info like this. I am not a fan of the religion, i am also not a fan of stupid people act out of hate.
“مَهْدًا = mahdan “: any child who grew up speaking arabic and reached 7 years old, could tell you that such word is mainly to indicate “home”. Yes derived from baby bed, but therefore generally used to indicate where someone belongs! if you want to use the literal meaning of it, then you can ONLY use it for a baby bed!!!!!!!
my case is closed.
you admit the passage clearly says the earth is “smooth” not flat… are you disputing the earth is smooth? a billiard ball has a tolerance of 0.22%. THe earth doesn’t exceed 0.17%. (“en.islamtoday.net/node/667”)
The earth, as described in the Quran, is smooth, not flat. You deny that your house is on a level surface, like a bed or carpet? It does not say the whole world is flat.
the earth is not smooth. Even a baby shd know that. Dont you see the hills and the valleys? The mountains and the gullies? compare mount everest and the deepest points of the earth. Come on please.
I dont know how much you feel better now playing in words to spread false info like this. I am not a fan of the religion, i am also not a fan of stupid people act out of hate.
“مَهْدًا = mahdan “: any child who grew up speaking arabic and reached 7 years old, could tell you that such word is mainly to indicate “home”. Yes derived from baby bed, but therefore generally used to indicate where someone belongs! if you want to use the literal meaning of it, then you can ONLY use it for a baby bed!!!!!!!